- From: Eric A. Meyer <eam3@po.cwru.edu>
- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:08:40 -0500
- To: www-style@w3.org
Todd, Todd, Todd-- tilting at windmills? In this day and age? Bravo! Consider me your Sancho, in nearly every sense. I'm a little confused about some of the issues at hand, but I'll still ride with you. Here's my contribution, poor though it may be: >I'm not talking about anything as headline-addled as ActiveX or Java, but >about fonts. And points. Specifically, your use of point units in CSS to >specify the size of fonts in Web pages, especially Microsoft fonts. Before >anybody's eyes glaze over, have a look at the Microsoft corporate home page >in Microsoft's browser for Macintosh, IE3 or 4: >http://www.verso.com/agitprop/points/font_wars.GIF (43K). I didn't see what you saw. Here's what I got instead: http://www.cwru.edu/dms/homes/eam3/css1/msie.gif (49K) The weird not-quite-dithering you'll see are an artifact of the image conversoin to GIF, and didn't appear on the actual Web page. Note the address, though: I was shunted to an Active Server Page which is (apparently) supposed to be tuned for IE4.0, even though it wasn't quite so. I'd like to point out that the four links near the top of the page-- the ones with the arrows next to them-- are specified in the source as being 8-point Verdana, not the 7-point text Todd saw in his version of the Microsoft homepage. (Don't get me started on the philosophical implications of this.) In other words, both sets of text look the same, but the source says they aren't. Erk. >The danger of specifying point units in CSS is compounded by their use with >special fonts, whose legibility characteristics at any nominal point size >are better than average, like "big looking" Verdana (and most of the other >very fine free MS Core Web Fonts). Okay, I'm not a font expert, so maybe I'm a little confused. I had thought that points measured distance, as in 1/72 of an inch. Is this so? If not, is it supposed to be so? Because I can understand not using pixels to specify font size, given the wide range of monitor resolutions, but I had been assuming that points were a good, generic solution for the problem of creating legible pages that were pretty much resolution-independent. Given that this is not, apparently, the case, what is left to us poor Web authors? Todd continues... >More to the point, these sizing issues would go away if CSS authors (and >their corporate sponsors) would make it a policy not to use point or pixel >units for type in Web pages. These units render inconsistently, so any >illusion of greater control is, well, illusory, and finally unfriendly. >[...zap...] >CSS allows author/designers to specify the size of fonts and other objects >like graphics in units or expressions that can be relative to user >preference or need: these units are em, ex, %, and "larger" or >"smaller". These are all, I agree, methods of dealing with the issue. However, they're still a little short of the mark at which Microsoft et.al. are aiming, and here's why. Let's say I want to create a sidebar of links in which the text is small enough to minimize canvas usage, but large enough to be read. I can define this text as being "font-size: 66%;", and if the reader has his default display set to a font size which makes this text too small, then raising that size will make the sidebar more legible....and make the main-body text much larger, possibly badly upsetting the balance of the page. The user is then forced to switch between default font sizes if he wishes to read both the main part of the page and the sidebar. (With IE4.0p1 for the Mac, this wasn't so hard, but what, now I hear this could be a pain?) "Fine," you may be thinking, "that's the risk Web designers take when they try to control appearance." And maybe that's the answer we want to give. But let's think for a moment about WHY Microsoft used the styles they did. Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think it was part of an "annoy Mac users" campaign. The point was to get the most information into the least space in the most attractive (and, hopefully, functional) possible fashion. I can sympathize with this, given that I ride herd over a sizable Web server myself-- and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this list. Interface design is tricky enough without having ugly issues like this raise up and bite us. It would be really nice if CSS2 could address this quandry. So what's the solution? The only thing I could think of was something along these lines: two new properties called 'font-size-minimum' and 'font-size-maximum'. That way, an author could declare something along these lines: .sidebar {font-size: 66%; font-size-minimum: 9pt;} BODY {font-size: medium; font-size-maximum: 18pt;} There could, perhaps, also be keyword values like 'legible', although I'm not sure how that could be defined. Don't ask me how it would fit into the shorthand 'font', either, because I didn't get that far. Hopefully, though, you see what I'm trying to do. Before anyone else says it, I'll save you the trouble: This buys us nothing, and runs counter to the entire accessability initiative. The reason I even wasted everyone's time with the idea was in the hope that it would spark an workable idea in someone else. (Please?) -- Eric A. Meyer - eam3@po.cwru.edu - http://www.cwru.edu/home/eam3.html Hypermedia Systems Manager Digital Media Services http://www.cwru.edu/dms/dms.html Case Western Reserve University http://www.cwru.edu/
Received on Monday, 24 November 1997 10:09:09 UTC