RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: MathML-Core meeting, Monday Nov 29, 2021

The problem with espousing general character formation rules is that they may (and probably will) not be interoperable. We want MathML to be interoperable. Unicode is designed to be interoperable and succeeds surprisingly well.

Thanks,
Murray

From: Stephen Watt <smwatt@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 11:50 AM
To: Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com>
Cc: www-math@w3.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: MathML-Core meeting, Monday Nov 29, 2021

Following the MathML-Core meeting, I was thinking some more about the math variant issue.   Neil made an excellent point that it is the MathML markup that determines the meaning.

I agree and would take it further, suggesting that we have been looking at the question backwards.   Rather than ask "Is it permissible to have a variant of a character with no corresponding Unicode point, e.g. math-variant bold italic of a digit?" we should instead say that a raw Unicode math-variant character is equivalent to  a MathML math variant.   Then the question is only how to render MathML math variants.

So logically, we could say we map Unicode into MathML, not MathML into unicode -- that is the main point.

This allows MathML to make up any other variants it wishes, with its own rendering rules.   As a silly example, we could have the "upside-down" math variant for which it could be argued we have a few particular points in unicode (e.g. for all ∀, there exists ∃, co-product ∐, mho ℧, and even an inverted factorial ¡).

Stephen

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 4:56 PM Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com<mailto:bkardell@gmail.com>> wrote:
It was brought to my attention that I share the wrong cryptpad URL (you have to use the share button to get the sharable URL).  The correct URL should be https://cryptpad.fr/code/#/2/code/edit/4ZrscOeHMxtuAerfmNAN8gME/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcryptpad.fr%2Fcode%2F%23%2F2%2Fcode%2Fedit%2F4ZrscOeHMxtuAerfmNAN8gME%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7Ccc265451e8f142c1178208d9b371a5ab%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637738122982141378%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=fMfybBlh9mRVPza5OnNDIyj3462XoKFwjo1Y%2Fh1e%2BhU%3D&reserved=0>

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 11:20 AM Brian Kardell <bkardell@gmail.com<mailto:bkardell@gmail.com>> wrote:
There will be a MathML-Core meeting on Monday.  We missed meeting in October because of TPAC, and it's doubtful we'll have much attendance at a December meeting as it falls between Christmas and New Year when many people (myself included) are out.  We'll discuss whether to have a December meeting or rejoin in Jan, but let's get through as much as we can so that people can make progress between now and then.

I've put together the beginning of an agenda, please feel free to add your edits..

https://cryptpad.fr/code/#/3/code/edit/16483a48eec88f7df3b16dd8002a874e/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcryptpad.fr%2Fcode%2F%23%2F3%2Fcode%2Fedit%2F16483a48eec88f7df3b16dd8002a874e%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7Ccc265451e8f142c1178208d9b371a5ab%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637738122982141378%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=CnCqhT%2Fuk9JFo0zDSHWAi4m5fW8ZNihv4PLS5wSuZTo%3D&reserved=0>



--
Brian Kardell :: @briankardell :: bkardell.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbkardell.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7Ccc265451e8f142c1178208d9b371a5ab%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637738122982141378%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=iUk%2BRTjJupRsnKHXIXbWh%2F3RcaPVQL341kw18K6N9Qc%3D&reserved=0>


--
Brian Kardell :: @briankardell :: bkardell.com<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbkardell.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmurrays%40exchange.microsoft.com%7Ccc265451e8f142c1178208d9b371a5ab%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637738122982141378%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=iUk%2BRTjJupRsnKHXIXbWh%2F3RcaPVQL341kw18K6N9Qc%3D&reserved=0>