W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-international@w3.org > October to December 2008

Re: Ideographic Space, word-spacing, and justification

From: KOBAYASHI Tatsuo(FAMILY Given) <tlk@kobysh.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:31:01 +0900
Message-ID: <352eabf80810300231q36e558afy501271111a6e43a2@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Steve Deach" <sdeach@adobe.com>
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, "WWW International" <www-international@w3.org>, "Paul Nelson" <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>, "Michel Suignard" <michel@unicode.org>
Hi, Erica,

In Japanese Layout, "spacing issue" is one of the most difficult issues to
We intended to carefully eliminate concrete character name like IDEOGRAPHIC
SPACE(U+3000) and SPACE(U+0002) from our requirement. Rather introduced
three different types of abstract space concepts as follows:

inter character space: usulal 1/2 em fixed space.
conditional space: 1/2 em fixed space to be inserted or pulled off between
characters and punctuation marks.
adjustable space: variable width space, behaves like usual western variable

Note that, usual Japanese punctuation marks have 1/2 em width in our
requirement, even if the character name might include "FULLWIDTH ~~~"

Anyway, the disition how to deal with these spaces in CSS recommendation and
in actual implementation is up to your side:-)


2008/10/30 Steve Deach <sdeach@adobe.com>

> No, in my personal opinion, it should not.
> The 2 differences between normal space/nbsp vs ideographic space are:
>  1.) The normal width is different, and
>  2.) The normal space/nbsp is treated as justifying
>      (adjusted by both wordspacing and letterspacing),
>      whereas the Ideographic space should only be adjusted by
>      letterspacing (only if ideographic letters are also so adjusted).
> However, I will re-confirm this with our CJK experts, before claiming this
> is an Adobe opinion.
> On 2008.10.29 15:13, "fantasai" <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > The CSSWG would like to know whether the IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE U+3000
> > should be affected by 'word-spacing', and whether it should be
> > treated as a space during spaces-only justification or treated as
> > a typical ideographic punctuation character.
> >
> > ~fantasai
> >

Scholex Co., Ltd. Yokohama
JUSTSYSTEM Digital Culture Research Center
Received on Thursday, 30 October 2008 09:31:41 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 22:40:56 UTC