- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:04:02 +1300
- To: www-style@w3.org, 'WWW International' <www-international@w3.org>
MURAKAMI Shinyu wrote: > fantasai wrote: >> 1) Should the 'start' and 'end' values apply to inlines or to blocks? > > It may not be necessary to specify on inlines, but I think they should > be able to apply to inlines for consistency because this functionality > is similar to text-autospace property and other text spacing properties > and they should have same scope. Ok, I've marked punctuation-trim as applying to all elements. > ... > The following is a revised version of this rule, more close to Japanese > standard (JIS X 4051). > ... Ok, I've updated the definitions accordingly. >> 3) In your proposal there are some language-based differences in whether >> ・:;。.、, are considered middle dot punctuations, closing punctuations, >> or neither. Is this a linguistic difference, or is it a reflection of >> how the punctuation is typically drawn (centered vs. to one side)? >> The reason I ask is because I have, for example, a simplified Chinese >> textbook where the periods and commas are drawn centered -- in this >> case, I'm guessing one wouldn't want them to be trimmed as closing >> punctuation. > > It is a reflection of how the punctuation is typically drawn (centered > vs. to one side), since I am not well versed in Chinese and Korean > punctuations. I did not know there was such case (simplified Chinese > with traditional Chinese punctuation?) IIRC, 标点符号用法 specifies placement as in Japanese rather than centered, but I suspect the standards-compliance of Chinese fonts may not be at the same level as for Japanese. > The punctuation list in my proposal was not complete. The following is a > revised version. > > (Japanese) > Fullwidth opening punctuations: 「『(‘“〔[{〈《【〝〖〘〚⦅« > Fullwidth closing punctuations: 」』)’”〕]}〉》】〟〗〙〛⦆»。.、, > Fullwidth middle dot punctuations: ・ I noticed you left out the colon and semicolon this time. Was that intentional? (Also, I assume the character between the filled and open closing brackets is the double prime? It looks like kanji on my screen for some reason...) > (Korean) > Fullwidth opening punctuations: 「『([{〈《【 > Fullwidth closing punctuations: 」』)]}〉》】., > Fullwidth middle dot punctuations: :; > (Simplified Chinese) > Fullwidth opening punctuations: 「『(‘“〔[{〈《【〖 > Fullwidth closing punctuations: 」』)’”〕]}〉》】〗。.、,:; > Fullwidth middle dot punctuations: · > (Traditional Chinese) > Fullwidth opening punctuations: 「『(‘“〔[{〈《【〝 > Fullwidth closing punctuations: 」』)’”〕]}〉》】〞 > Fullwidth middle dot punctuations: ‧:;。.、, > > The above Japanese list is based on JIS X 4051, and others are based on > Word 2007's each primary editing language setting. (I want someone to > check this.) Judging from 标点符号用法, the Simplified Chinese list makes sense. (It specifies the placement of periods, commas, and colons to the bottom left of the glyph box.) I don't know of a similar resource for Traditional Chinese, however, so I can't check that. (Do any i18n guys/gals reading this have a pointer for Hant punctuation conventions?) I'll ask Steve (Adobe) and Paul (MS) to check on this as well. > When punctuations typically only used for one language appear in another > language text, punctuation trimming is not expected. Given that in web pages the language is often unmarked, and just generally to make mixed-language documents format more consistently, I think punctuation specific to one of these languages should appear in the corresponding list for the other languages as well. Do you feel that that would cause any significant problems? ~fantasai
Received on Monday, 5 February 2007 05:04:40 UTC