Re: PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion

Actually now that I think of it, artifact in PDF terms acts more like aria-hidden=true, so I'm not sure if that's a good idea.
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bryan Garaventa 
  To: Cynthia Shelly ; Schnabel, Stefan ; James Craig 
  Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger ; Jason White ; Gunderson, Jon R ; T.V Raman ; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org ; wai-xtech@w3.org 
  Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:11 AM
  Subject: Re: PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion


  I like the intuitiveness of it.

  Would there be benefit in combining them though, so mistakes like putting role="decoration" on container elements wouldn't cause confusion?

  Perhaps role="artifact" for both usages?

  The word artifact is another word for decoration, and has the same usage for accessible PDF tagging.

  Just an idea.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Cynthia Shelly 
    To: Schnabel, Stefan ; James Craig ; Bryan Garaventa 
    Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger ; Jason White ; Gunderson, Jon R ; T.V Raman ; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG ; wai-xtech@w3.org 
    Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 8:30 AM
    Subject: RE: PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion


    Role=layout just came up on a thread about layout tables on html. I kind of like that.

    When I hear designers (and some authors/developers) talk about the way a page looks, I hear "layout" much more often than than "presentation."  I hear computer scientists, spec writers, and more experienced devs talk about content/presentation or model/view/controller.  

    Have we made a conscious choice about which of these is our audience?

    How about
    <img role="decoration">
    To remove elements without children from aapi mappings. 

    <table role="layout">
    To remove semantics and aapi mappings from elements with children, without impacting the children (other than children that would be invalid without the parent, such as <tr> and <li>)



    Sent from my Windows Phone

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Schnabel, Stefan
    Sent: ‎1/‎30/‎2014 11:58 PM
    To: James Craig; Bryan Garaventa
    Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger; Cynthia Shelly; Jason White; Gunderson, Jon R; T.V Raman; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG; wai-xtech@w3.org
    Subject: RE: PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in  ARIA   1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion


    >> role=""

    Oh please. Please.  Please, do NOT repeat the alt="" workaround again...

    -----Original Message-----
    From: James Craig [mailto:jcraig@apple.com] 
    Sent: Donnerstag, 30. Januar 2014 21:52
    To: Bryan Garaventa
    Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger; Cynthia Shelly; Jason White; Gunderson, Jon R; T.V Raman; w3c-wai-pf@w3.org WAI-PFWG; wai-xtech@w3.org
    Subject: Re: PFWG-ISSUE-348: Consider renaming (now actually 'deprecating' in ARIA 1.1) role="presentation" to avoid avoid author confusion

    On Jan 30, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:

    > So would "" be a direct mirror of the role presentation? Meaning that it does exactly the same thing?

    Just to clarify. This is an item for discussion. Nothing is decided...
    But yes, that was my intention. role="" would be a synonym for role="presentation"