Re: request for sample page structure analyses

Dave and all,

I was trying to get at the left hand and right hand side might be considered 
dictionary items.  What I am asking about the number of blocks is if they 
are each assigned a number, what is the corellary and the meaning? 
Interesting on pop ups and fly outs.  call them pop ups and fly outs I 
guess.

On daisy format, I was refering to a discussion that took place last week I 
think on the call where we were compairing pages or sites to daisy books.  I 
think we can fit a lot of that here but we'd need visual descriptors as well 
as daisy is more serial in nature than the screen is.


On nav, the three levels you site can be broken down into just nav.  If I 
see nav here, nav there and nav somewhere else, it's still nav.  Perhaps we 
can describe types of nav like site nav, page nav, special nave meaning 
perhaps a list of other sites, maybe ref nav.

A substitute for content is tricky because we need to more closely define 
what content is in this instance.  It could be labeled main content or 
something like that so as to indicate that we can throw the rest of the page 
away.

Are expanders and collapsers in here too?

Johnnie Apple Seed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pawson, David" <David.Pawson@rnib.org.uk>
To: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>; 
<wai-xtech@w3.org>
Cc: <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: request for sample page structure analyses

    -----Original Message-----
    From: david poehlman

    I'm interested in getting at the heart of things, so hope
    we can have discussion so I post the below.
    Analyses of analyses:

    Can we have this in daisy book fashion?

dp. Have what Dave?



    *Primary navigation.
    *Secondary navigation.
    *Tertiary navigation.
    *dp* this expresses no meaning for me at all.

A chunk of a web page which contains navigation, e.g. a list of links.
Relative to the page, its either primary, secondary or tertiary.



    *Generic navigation.
    *dp* maybe a better term would be menu or main menu?  If it
    is unrelated
    than perhaps site menu?  Can some of these be described as
    tables of
    contents?

It may not be presented as a menu. It may not be tabular,
but that would be an alternative? E.g. The amazon site, on any page,
has links to other areas, e.g. I'm in the cookbook section, a generic
navigation area links out to thrillers.  We tried to generalise such
that it might be applicable to many sites.

    *Contextual navigation.
    *dp* this sends a signal to me about internalization not
    same as above at
    all.  It is more closely aligned with a table of contents.

dp. The only difference between this and the above is that this
is related to the content and hence context of the main contents
of this page. E.g. could be to other cookbooks in the amazon example.




    *Logo
     Text or graphical item.
    This is too non specific a meaning for something so
    specific.  I'd say that
    a logo is the company/organizational mast head.  I'm not
    even sure I'd call
    it a cannonical page part as it is often contained in
    something that does
    something or if it stands alone, it's just a logo.

dp. I'd be happy with masthead, but on some sites we looked at
it was a tiny fraction of the page width, e.g. virgin and zdnet.





    *Header. Content at the top of a page, often common across
    the pages of
    a specific site. Visual separation from the content of the page.
    *dp* top of page? This has more meaning orientatively than header.
dp. Yes, agreed. That was the direction, a visual analysis. After which
the terms could be used for other things.






    *Footer. Often common across a site. Usually visually separated from
    the remainder of the page, may contain other items.
    *dp* more generically, end of page?  Footer is fine though
    because unlike
    header, it is usually more prominently displayed.

dp. We found quite a variance in the footer size. Similarly with what
we agreed was a header. The only help we found was using the 'constant
across the pages of a site'.


    *A form.  As per the html definition. Unsure if a searchbox is an
      equivalent.  I think we need to use form in the
    fullest sense.

dp. I'm happy with that. I didn't specify its size. A form as per the html
sense matches our use.



    *Content (perhaps page content might be more specific?). The major
    block of content of a page. Often the central block in a page.
    *dp* the entire page is content.  We need to deffine this
    more precicely as
    a block of text and possibly only one block of text or main
    page body if
    that is the case.
dp. From our visual inspection, the definition we were happy with
was not difficult to spot. Often the central area of the entire page.
Often the actual bit read, as apposed to links to other places.
Suggest a better word than content please Dave?





    *Section. A part of content. May have its own heading.
    *dp* what bounds a section?  What is a section contained
    in?

dp. Varies with the page being analysed, as I said in my vocabulary.
These are generic. Apply what nesting is appropriate to the page
being described, to the granularity needed for use.




    *Text block. Lowest level of content, from a single
    paragraph up to a
    series of paragraphs.
    *dp* perhaps not the lowest level.

dp. Ditto, apply what nesting is needed for the application.
>From the sites we looked at, we agreed that this generally was
the visually lowest level.



    *Advertisement. Visual entity, text or graphic or animated
    gif or other
    means of realisation.
    *dp* I like the description, but advertisement may not be
    the correct word
    here since lots of these are done for other than advert reasons.
    Advertisement is certainly something that welcomes
    distinction though so we
    can throw it away.

dp. If its not an advert, don't call it one. We meant this word
specifically for adverts, not the more general graphics or images etc.



    *pop-up window. Is this part of a page?
    *dp* is it there before you pop it up?
dp. I don't know Dave. We decided to ask on this one, since a pop up
originates from a specific page, but is not part of it? How to relate
this to a fly-out menu, or tooltip etc.



    ** site reviews.



    *Left hand side, there are 5 blocks.
    *dp* this is missing from the list above and is important to have.

Sorry, this is what I am describing. Hence there are words for 5 'things'.
5 screen areas being described. Hence blocks.



    *Right hand side, 5 blocks.
    *dp* this is also meaningfull and missing from the list of terms.
as above, not a term.



    *block 1 to 5, contextual navigation
    b*lock 6, advertisement
    What determines the number of the block?

dp. Visual count that we did.


HTH DaveP


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Received on Friday, 22 October 2004 14:03:19 UTC