Re: MINUTES: W3C User Agent Telecon 26 April 2001

hi Jon and Tim

see MN 2 times below:


>Attendance
>
>Chair:Jon Gunderson
>
>Scribe: Jim Allan
>
>Present:
>Mickey Quenzer
>Tim Lacy
>David Poehlman
>Eric Hansen
>Gregory Rosmatia
>
>Regrets:
>Ian Jacobs
>Charles McCathieNevile
>
>Action Item Summary
>
>Open Action Items
>
>    1.IJ: Edit the text of checkpoints 2.1, 2.2, 8.1, and 8.2 so that UAs
>are not required to conform for all formats that are implemented.
>      Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference
>    2.IJ: Make mention of animations, text streams, and refresh in the
>document.
>      Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference
>    3.IJ: Coordinate usability testing of the guidelines (JRG volunteers to
>be one of the testers).
>      Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0137
>    4.CMN: Find out from SYMM WG whether repositioning of objects will
>appear in the spec (or should be in UAAG).
>      Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0357
>    5.RS: Send pointer to information about universal access gateway to the
>WG.
>      Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0258
>    6.GR: Review event checkpoints for techniques
>    7.MQ: Review speech checkpoints
>
>New Action Items
>
>    1.JA: test object in opera
>    2.DP: support for no-script HPR
>    3.GR: support for no-script lynx longdesc - webspeak, HPR
>    4.JG: check with opera how they comply with 2.4
>    5.GR: write different markup (list of elements) that 2.9 applies to,
>for clarification.
>
>Completed Action Items
>
>    1.DP: Review navigation checkpoints for techniques
>    2.TL: CSS 1 compliance of IE
>      IE XP will when rendering HTML strict documents
>
>
>Minutes
>
>JG: want to document implementation plans for most recent draft
>
>JA: have developed a table for input of implementation reviews, inputting
>Opera information
>
>JG: want documentation. going through checkpoints.
>
>MQ for speech implementation, I was looking at HPR. Is IBM reviewing their
>document.
>
>JG: need to look for techniques
>
>MQ ok will do it
>
>1.1 Ensure that the user can operate the user agent fully throughkeyboard
>input alone. [Priority 1] Bothcontent and
>user agent.
>
>JG: cp 1.1 - any browser for all functionalities through keyboard
>
>TL: IE yes except text selection.
>
>JG: IE plus assistive tech will do text selection. send details to the list
>
>1.2 For the element with content focus, allow the user to activateany
>explicitly associated input device event handlers
>through keyboard input alone. [Priority 1] Content only.
>
>JG: cp 1.2 - event handlers that can be activated through keyboard in
>win2000 with IE and narrator - have mouse in mouse out, combine with mouse
>keys for clicking (a possible solution) accessible browser project-
>navigate to event handlers, get a list and activate event (UIUC accessible
>browser
>project.

MN:  Please keep in mind that MouseKeys is not a good long
term solution for many, and that it is very difficult to use
on laptop keyboards.   Can you use the "spacebar" or some
such configurable key to "emulate" a mouse click in these situations ?



>1.3 Ensure that every message (e.g., prompt, alert, notification, etc.)
>that is a non-textelement and is part of the user
>agent user interface has a textequivalent. [Priority 1] Useragent only.
>
>JG: cp 1.3
>
>TL: IE - yes. media player ??, they are improving
>
>2.1 For all format specificationsthat the user agent implements, make
>contentavailable through the rendering
>processes described by those specifications.[Priority 1] Content only.
>
>JG: cp 2.1 use rendering in specs. html 4 is weak
>
>GR: opera follows html spec for no script and error recovery. if script
>does not execute then display "no script". broken script, turn scripts off,
>
>JG: this is a difficult checkpoint. question - abbreviation or acronym.
>html doesn't say what to do with it. Keep in DOM
>
>GR: yes, in DOM, then UA or at can
>
>GR:ab it.
>
>JG: what about longdesc.
>
>GR: will look into it.
>
>TL: 2.1 reviewing list. IE, first DOM will reflect what is authored, will
>hand off non-native to plugin, will do html, xml, most of the text stuff.
>IE does not
>support longdesc. planning for next version. trying to
>
>MQ webspeak would follow longdesc and open an new browser instance. needed
>improvement.
>
>JG: only thing html 4.0 spec says. accessing longdesc must be different
>from accessing href
>
>GR: HPR supports longdesc. treats it like an href. alerts user for activation.
>
>TL: parts of html 4 that are not implemented. support html 3.2 and css1 and
>parts of dom.
>
>JG: anticipate DOM for
>
>JA:va script - text note
>
>TL: don't know
>
>JG: any browser html 4 compliant
>
>JA: Netscape 6 ???
>
>Action TL: css 1 compliance of IE
>
>JG: some will change as html and css are modularized. don't know how this
>will affect checkpoints and compliance. xhtml basic.
>
>JG: need to know about html version compliance for browsers.
>
>JG: is realmedia SMIL 1 compliant.
>
>GR: what about lpplayer,
>
>JA: supports SMIL as far
>
>check with issound for SMIL compliance -
>
>JA:
>
>2.2 For all text formats that the useragent implements, provide a view of
>the text source. Text formats include at least
>the following: (1) allmedia objects given an Internet media type of "text"
>(e.g., text/plain,text/HTML, or text/*), and
>(2) all SGML and XML applications, regardless ofInternet media type (e.g.,
>HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.1, SMIL, SVG,
>etc.).
>
>JG: 2.2 view of text source. - yes for nearly all
>
>2.3Allow globalconfiguration so that, for each piece of unrendered
>conditional content "C", the user agent alerts the
>user to the existence of the contentand provides access to it
>
>JG: 2.3 global configuration content access, conditional content
>
>JG: what about object
>
>GR: Netscape 6 has some support, if you use map to render text it renders
>nothing
>
>JG: 4.75 will render it.
>
>GR: testing pages for guidelines
>
>GR:oup.
>
>JG: may have use ulist and div
>
>MQ webspeak may do this, list items, no script, no frames, alt
>
>JG: display alt, alternative content in object and image, captions, no
>script, no frames,
>
>JA: no switch for captions in smile
>
>JG: opera - no script, no frames (if no frame information included, will
>not generate a plac
>
>EHolder - no repair strategy), image, no longdesc.
>
>JG: - alt for image, ti
>
>TL:e through tool tip. no frames.
>
>TL: don't know if IE will display no script.
>
>GR: no frame only to be rendered if non support for frames (quotes from spec)
>
>JA: IE seems to work, Netscape
>
>action JA: test object in opera
>
>GR: iframe should be included. did pages for testing that are archived
>somewhere. wai/gl/test has test pages for browsers, assistive tech, user
>expectations, functionalities. access key test pages, div etc.
>
>JG: may frame, iframe, longdesc, alt, no-script, object, no-frames no frame
>- opera and lynx object - Netscape no-script - lynx, opera,
>
>action DP: support for no-script HPR
>
>action GR: support for no-script lynx longdesc - webspeak, HPR
>
>2.4 For content where user input is only possiblewithin a finite time
>interval controlled by the user agent, allow
>configuration to make the time interval "infinite". Do this bypausing
>automatically at the end of each time interval
>where user input ispossible, and resuming automatically after the user has
>explicitly completedinput. In this
>configuration, alert the user when the session has been pausedand which
>enabledelements are time-sensitive.
>
>JG: 2.4 pausing
>
>JA: opera says they do
>
>JG: how
>
>JA: don't know.
>
>action JG: check with opera how they comply with 2.4
>
>2.5 Allow configuration or control sothat texttranscripts, collated text
>transcripts, captions,and auditory descriptions
>are rendered at the same time as the associated audiotracks and visualtracks
>
>JG: 2.5 caption. configuration of caption real does - has a switch window
>media does quick time does, using pro version can turn on-off captions (by
>deleting captions?)
>
>EH don't know of any. magpie is a creation engine. there is information
>that serves role of transcript, but the player does not know what it is.
>
>2.6 Respect synchronization cuesduring rendering.
>
>JG: 2.6 synchronization real yes windows media yes
>
>2.7 Allow configuration to generate repair text when the user agent
>recognizes that the author has failed to provide
>conditional content that was required by the format specification.The user
>agent may satisfy this checkpoint by
>basing the repair text on any ofthe following available sources of
>information: URI reference, content type, orelement
>type.
>
>JG: 2.7 repair text - alt text, does anyone generate IE if no alt then IE
>show href lynx - file name, nothing, or place holder text IE with
>
>JA:ws - similar to lynx, configurable (
>
>GR: may revise previous posting about JFW configuration)
>
>2.8 Allow configuration so that when the user agent recognizes that
>conditional content required by the format
>specification is present but empty (e.g., the empty string), the user
>agenteither (1) generates no repairtext, or (2)
>generates repair text as described in checkpoint 2.7.
>
>MQ HPR does something. 2.8 configuration - generate repair text - if alt
>null IE render plac
>
>2.9 Allow configuration to render all conditional content automatically.
>Provide access to this contentaccording to
>format specifications or where unspecified, by applying one of thefollowing
>techniques described in checkpoint 2.3:
>1a, 2a, or 1b
>
>EH: older or not. IE with JFW - JFW says nothing, can configure to speak
>images without alt. 2.9 configure - render all conditional content. ???
>discussion about what checkpoint means. about SMIL and language tracks.
>
>EH in previous version of documents, automating pulling up of content out
>of context.
>
>GR: if no frame has longdesc, provide some step through functionality. more
>for querying to ask for selected items from a list of alternative
>information to
>display.
>
>JA: selecting caption and language tracks from a movie with 3 languages of
>each.
>
>GR: in cases where you need to generate repair text, it is a way to find
>repair text.
>
>JG: someone want to write technique
>
>action GR: write different markup (list of elements) that 2.9 applies to,
>for clarification.
>
>2.10 Allow configuration not to render content in unsupported
>naturallanguages. Indicate to the user in context that
>author-suppliedcontent has not been rendered.
>
>JA: I am confused 2.10 configuration to not render content and inform user.
>if you don't support a font for a language, browser would not render
>language but render place holder. IE prompt to get different language, or
>auto download, or do nothing,
>
>GR: technique-need demarcation for unrendered text should be in same
>character set declared for page.
>
>TL: css conformance for windows xp, if strict mode declared, then css1
>supported
>
>JG: organize a face to face in July or later, topic--conformance test
>suites for developers, purpose for f2f try to bring in developers to
>develop test suites
>and recruiting. at this point in guidelines need to not change text but get
>implementation (must be satisfied by 2 independent implementations). need this
>to move to candidate recommendation. not sure where yet.
>
>GR: sent uri for test documents. there is dom-ts@w3.org list. see W3 QA
>(quality assurance) for more info. working on gl pages with UA in mind.
>
>JG: AOL working with Henter-Joyce, need to develop special api and
>accessibility api because they do not meet their needs.
>
>TL: do not know about this. am very interested.
>
>JG: messaged Scott Totman (?) about this. may have both ST and
>
>TL: on call in two weeks to discuss.
>
>DP: adobe and AOL using MSAA and inte
>
>GR:ating it in their suites.
>
>TL: working with adobe to get MSAA on track.
>
>JG: AOL ask for relief from using standard API. concerned about proprietary
>API for assistive technology. want developer and at people to use
>standard.
>
>TL: IE 6 has beefed up DOM and MSAA support, round tripping to find either
>place. closing hole as we find them.

MN:  Tim, have you looked at the problem with "input type = file", that
went around on the UA/IG list discussion last week?  MSAA was unable
to "find" the button supplied by IE 5.5.....




>GR: lynx supports no-script renders it inline.
>
>
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Received on Monday, 30 April 2001 16:06:50 UTC