RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

There is tension in 2.2.1 ‘Understanding’.

This fragment supports the idea that time is important to all-people and therefore should be supported by not-auto-disappearing content “The intent of this success criterion is to ensure that users with disabilities are given adequate time to interact with web content whenever possible”.

Compared to the earlier fragment that reduced the idea to ‘tasks’, ” Goal: Users have adequate time to complete tasks“.

Is the normative idea of ‘interact’ or ‘task’ in WAI inclusive of accessing information, or is a task an input or onclick and alike? Those are not captured in the 2.2 Glossary<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#glossary>.

Understanding 2.2.1 in WAI<https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/timing-adjustable.html>

Here's to version 3.

Regards, Chris



General
From: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com>
Sent: Friday, 27 June 2025 9:45 AM
To: 'Steve Green' <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>; 'Mark Magennis' <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

[External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation – be cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
Very much agreed, Steve, but, as the benefit statement reads for 4.1.3:

“The intended beneficiaries are blind and low vision users of assistive technologies with screen reader capabilities. “

So, unless people are using Fusion with the speech enabled, I guess WCAG isn’t for everyone?

Let’s hope that WCAG 3.0 might make popups - regardless of how they’re implemented – more accessible because there are gaps as it stands in WCAG 2.x as this thread demonstrates clearly.





From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2025 12:11 AM
To: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com<mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

This is one of the benefits of putting the messages in a modal dialog. As long as screen magnifier users have enabled tracking, the message will automatically move into the viewport when it receives focus. Otherwise, the user has to hunt for the message, assuming they even know it exists. That’s pretty difficult, even at relatively low magnification levels.

Steve

From: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com<mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>>
Sent: 26 June 2025 14:15
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

Mike,

A problem with things that are tucked away to not attract too much attention is that they are easily missed by some users, particularly users of screen magnification. So it's good to think about whether it may be possible to use inline notifications rather than pop-ups.

Mark

________________________________
From: Mike Cleary <mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov<mailto:mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov>>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 13:55
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>>
Cc: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com<mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

You don't often get email from mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov<mailto:mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm not familiar with the code since I'm not the developer, but I will pass this all along.

The notification popup is about the size and shape of a toast -- just big enough to display the message, and tries not to attract too much attention, tucked away at lower right -- but it remains on screen until the user closes it. It's not a modal (I think).






Mike Cleary (Contractor) | Scrum Master

Guidehouse, Inc.

mike.cleary@GrantSolutions.gov<mailto:email@GrantSolutions.gov>



On Assignment With

GrantSolutions

Office of Grants, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Financial Resources (ASFR)
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Mobile: 703.627.7501


On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 4:52 AM Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk<mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>> wrote:

I agree about it being a clear violation of 2.2.1 if the messages automatically disappear after a period of time except in the circumstances you describe or if a page reload occurs.



Steve



From: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com<mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>>
Sent: 26 June 2025 09:38
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: A question about immediate feedback



Adam Cooper said:  "It should be onscreen for as long as you believe it is necessary for everybody to consume its content and then disappear."



Adam, I would have thought that automatically disappearing toast notifications are a violation of 2.2.1 Timing Adjustable. Unless they disappear when they are no longer valid or one of the other mechanisms (turn off, adjust, extend) are implemented.



Interested to hear your view on this.



Mark