RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

Very much agreed, Steve, but, as the benefit statement reads for 4.1.3:

 

“The intended beneficiaries are blind and low vision users of assistive technologies with screen reader capabilities. “

 

So, unless people are using Fusion with the speech enabled, I guess WCAG isn’t for everyone?

 

Let’s hope that WCAG 3.0 might make popups - regardless of how they’re implemented – more accessible because there are gaps as it stands in WCAG 2.x as this thread demonstrates clearly.

 

 

 

 

 

From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk> 
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2025 12:11 AM
To: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

 

This is one of the benefits of putting the messages in a modal dialog. As long as screen magnifier users have enabled tracking, the message will automatically move into the viewport when it receives focus. Otherwise, the user has to hunt for the message, assuming they even know it exists. That’s pretty difficult, even at relatively low magnification levels.

 

Steve

 

From: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com <mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com> > 
Sent: 26 June 2025 14:15
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback

 

Mike,

 

A problem with things that are tucked away to not attract too much attention is that they are easily missed by some users, particularly users of screen magnification. So it's good to think about whether it may be possible to use inline notifications rather than pop-ups.

 

Mark

 

  _____  

From: Mike Cleary <mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov <mailto:mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov> >
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2025 13:55
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk <mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk> >
Cc: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com <mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com> >; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>  <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: A question about immediate feedback 

 

 
You don't often get email from mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov <mailto:mike.cleary@grantsolutions.gov> . Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> 

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm not familiar with the code since I'm not the developer, but I will pass this all along.

 

The notification popup is about the size and shape of a toast -- just big enough to display the message, and tries not to attract too much attention, tucked away at lower right -- but it remains on screen until the user closes it. It's not a modal (I think).

 

 

 

Mike Cleary (Contractor) | Scrum Master

Guidehouse, Inc. 

mike.cleary@GrantSolutions.gov <mailto:email@GrantSolutions.gov> 

 

On Assignment With

GrantSolutions 

Office of Grants, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Financial Resources (ASFR)
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Mobile: 703.627.7501

 

 

On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 4:52 AM Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk <mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk> > wrote:

I agree about it being a clear violation of 2.2.1 if the messages automatically disappear after a period of time except in the circumstances you describe or if a page reload occurs.

 

Steve

 

From: Mark Magennis <Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com <mailto:Mark.Magennis@skillsoft.com> >
Sent: 26 June 2025 09:38
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Subject: Re: A question about immediate feedback

 

Adam Cooper said:  "It should be onscreen for as long as you believe it is necessary for everybody to consume its content and then disappear."

 

Adam, I would have thought that automatically disappearing toast notifications are a violation of 2.2.1 Timing Adjustable. Unless they disappear when they are no longer valid or one of the other mechanisms (turn off, adjust, extend) are implemented.

 

Interested to hear your view on this.

 

Mark