Re: Does 1.4.1 cover differences in state?

Yes. Some state differences are required. 1.4.1 states:

Color is not used as the only visual means of conveying information, 
indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual 
element.

  * So the "pressed" state of a toggle button is a way of conveying
    information so if "color" is the only way this is indicated then it
    needs to meet a 3:1 ratio between the pressed and unpressed colours.
  * The same for a "selected" tab page
  * A link with no underline falls into the either "indicates an action"
    or "distinguishing a visual element"

However I don't believe a hover state falls into any of these so don't 
believe it needs to meet this.

Regards,
james


On 11/16/2017 10:38 AM, Repsher, Stephen J wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> The proposed Graphics Contrast SC does not attempt to cover 
> differences in state, but I think this is an important question and 
> I’m confused by your conflicting responses (or at least that’s how I 
> perceive it).
>
> Going back to your words at 
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0436.html 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.w3.org_Archives_Public_w3c-2Dwai-2Dgl_2017OctDec_0436.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=CIHu8rc_0wRTTC_7DvWtiGNKjpA-3oTgbu_6ve6hP0I&m=VuJ9AekS2w8s59IRyHc1bT9zLThXySuaIUzyxxWl7Lg&s=Lq5X_kCEn3R0hwKWQapmcU_5MOazreDdfobx5XOuaRc&e=>...
>
> Mike: There is no language requiring a contrast minimum between the 
> states themselves. I would really like that to at least be captured in 
> the Understanding doc, if it can't be part of the SC, because being 
> unable to differentiate between states is as much of a problem as not 
> being able to differentiate between controls.
>
> James: I always fail this on 1.4.1 Use of Color: Color is not used as 
> the only visual means of conveying information, indicating an action, 
> prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual element. (Level A)
>
> James: If the ratio is 3:1 or greater then it is no longer color alone 
> (hue and lightness) so no longer fails 1.4.1. As such I don’t think 
> this needs to be in this SC.
>
> So where is the misunderstanding occurring here?  Do you feel 1.4.1 
> applies to some state differences but not others?
>
> I think this will be an important point to ultimately clarify in the 
> respective Understanding docs for these SC.
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2017 11:32 AM
> *To:* w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: CFC - Graphics Contrast
>
> No it would not. 1.4.1 does not mention the word state and include a 
> definition which includes hover. Hover does not fit into the things 
> which fail 1.4.1
>
> Take for example the page 
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-without-color.html 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_UNDERSTANDING-2DWCAG20_visual-2Daudio-2Dcontrast-2Dwithout-2Dcolor.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=CIHu8rc_0wRTTC_7DvWtiGNKjpA-3oTgbu_6ve6hP0I&m=VuJ9AekS2w8s59IRyHc1bT9zLThXySuaIUzyxxWl7Lg&s=S5IeKhESG47_AOwC_OkZVER566af7qqSGDX2iNWJoaA&e=>
>
> There are contents, intro, Previous and Next buttons at the top of the 
> page. The only difference when they are hovered is the background color.
>
> The background color is #dde and the hover background color is #aae
>
> The ratio between these is 1.6:1
>
> I would not fail this page and I object to any SC which would fail 
> this. My current reading of this new SC along with the definition of 
> state proposed would and hence I object.
>
> On 11/16/2017 7:54 AM, Repsher, Stephen J wrote:
>
>     Adding to what Alastair is saying, I’m confused by the objection
>     because, as you pointed out, using color alone to differentiate
>     between hover and non-hover would be a violation of 1.4.1.  Only
>     when the 2 states are adjacent and touching would this SC come
>     into play, but the 3:1 ratio requirement is the same.
>
>     Steve
>
>     *From:*Alastair Campbell [mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com]
>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:03 AM
>     *To:* James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
>     <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>
>     *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: CFC - Graphics Contrast
>
>     > Requiring hover to have sufficient contrast ratio to non-hover states has no accessibility
>     requirements behind it as far as I know and would unnecessarily
>     limit color choices in an already limited palette.
>
>     Hi James,
>
>     I don’t think that was discussed directly, but in order for that
>     to be an issue the controls in different states would have to be
>     adjacent, i.e. touching. Even without a mention of states, I think
>     that would be an issue in current WCAG conformance.
>
>     There was some discussion about whether ‘existing’ was a state,
>     and people thought that wasn’t clear so ‘boundaries’ was added:
>
>     “Visual information used to indicate states and boundaries of
>     active user interface components”
>
>     (Still with the intent that if it isn’t there, you don’t have to
>     add something.)
>
>     Does that help?
>
>     -Alastair
>
> -- 
> Regards, James
>
> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
> Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 
> 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com 
> <sip:james.nurthen@oracle.com>
> OracleCorporate Architecture
> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help 
> protect the environment
>

-- 
Regards, James

<http://www.oracle.com> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987 
1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com 
<sip:james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Oracle Corporate Architecture
500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065
<http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing 
practices and products that help protect the environment