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Re: CFC: Change of Content SC

From: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 14:37:19 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJi9CqqHkupwZXTktaQtspOifYa7dtdzWp-39AvkbD2wGkEJrQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
In my email on Wed, Jun 7, 2017 I requested my comments be recorded as
I did not see my concerns addressed.
Then following Andrew's request to record my 'objections'
specifically, I did so as Objection #1 and #2.
However, it is not my intention to  stall the CFC  process if it is
being construed in that fashion.
I simply want to record my disagreement and '-1' to the proposal.
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


On 6/7/17, Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote:
> Hello Andrew,
>
> Objection #1:I pointed to the definition of 'change of context'
> because it covers content changes  being discussed in the proposed SC
> 3.2.7. So this has not been overlooked by normative WCAG 2.0.
> One can and needs to apply the same SCs to  content added to the page
> as a result of user action just as one applies them to the content on
> page load.
> That new content  must have markup to satisfy 1.3.1 and be in the
> reading / navigation order.
> The semantics, info-relationship of the new content should be marked
> up by assigning a suitable role / aria-live property ... more
> important if the content precedes the reading / nav order.
> ARIA19  refers to 'There are also a number of special case live region
> roles which can be used instead of applying live region properties
> directly'.
> A global form level error message  is related to the entire form and
> the relation can be exposed if it is assigned a role / aria-live
> property.
> Same is true of  error messages displayed  instantly as one navigates
> to the next form field or a message that says  an item has been added
> to cart, etc.
>
> Objection #2:
> Which control is the first exception referring to:
> "a programmatically determined relationship between the new content
> and the control that triggers it”.
> I understand the trigger to be the  submit button for the form is it not?
> The form control does not trigger the  new content but is the cause of it.
> This SC requires an association with the submit button as per my reading.
>
> My suggestion:
> That's why I believe  the content changes contemplated by 3.2.7
> (barring continual changes type) do not require a new SC.
> Content needs to be added to Understanding doc and techniques doc.
> For instance, ARIA19 can be broadened to say how  roles (not natively
> available) can be applied to convey  semantics and info relationships.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Sailesh Panchang
>
> On 6/7/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>> Sailesh,
>> I’m not sure what to record. David had indicated that this is broader
>> than
>> the requirements for 4.1.2, and in fact the first exception states "There
>> is
>> a programmatically determined relationship between the new content and
>> the
>> control that triggers it;” which pretty much means that if you have a
>> form
>> control with a validation message that comes up when the control is in an
>> error state and that is programmatically associated with the control then
>> that new content doesn’t need to meet 3.2.7.
>>
>> 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 are about changes of context. That may or may not be
>> related
>> to new content on the page.
>>
>> I think that these issues have been discussed and as a result I didn’t
>> think
>> that there was an objection. If I misinterpreted and there is an
>> objection,
>> please clarify what the specific objection is.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> Adobe
>>
>> akirkpat@adobe.com
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/17, 10:43, "Sailesh Panchang" <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Kindly record this following comment  as part of the CFC as the
>>>concerns raised by me on this thread have not been addressed.
>>>Content on a Web page  changing in response to user action is not new.
>>>This is a characteristic of dynamic pages and has been around for a
>>>dozen years plus.
>>>WCAG 2.0  covers dynamic content. This is   referenced in the normative
>>> text:
>>>1. Changes of context cover content changes "if made without user
>>>awareness, can disorient users who are not able to view the entire
>>>page simultaneously". So 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 address some types of dynamic
>>>content.
>>>2. SC 4.1.2 covers another block : "notification of changes to these
>>>items is available to user agents, including assistive technologies".
>>>
>>>There are a couple of  ARIA techniques that  reference WCAG 2 SC for
>>>added content:
>>>ARIA18: Using role="alertdialog" creates a notification.
>>>ARIA19: Using ARIA role=alert or Live Regions to Identify Errors
>>>
>>>Also, David's last email above notes: "I can see the rational for
>>>added content to components in 4.1.2".
>>>
>>>Therefore one really may need to apply one or more of the existing SCs
>>> to evaluate the new content added to a page as a result of user
>>>action. One can apply 4.1.2 / 3.3.1  as ARIA 18/19 suggest  as well as
>>>ensure compliance with 1.3.1, 1.3.2, 2.4.3, 3.2.1, 3.2.2 as the
>>>situation demands.
>>>
>>>Thanks and best wishes,
>>>Sailesh Panchang
>>>Principal Accessibility Consultant
>>>Deque Systems Inc
>>>Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105
>>>Mobile: 571-344-1765
>>>
>>>
>>>On 6/6/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>> AGWG’ers,
>>>>
>>>> As we have received substantially positive feedback leading up to this
>>>> CfC,
>>>> this CfC is agreed on as a consensus opinion of the working group.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, in response to comments we will also add a reviewer note
>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>> SC to clarify that there are outstanding questions that the Working
>>>> Group
>>>> is
>>>> interested in additional feedback on related to how to best handle
>>>> content
>>>> with continual changes of content such as games and simulations.
>>>>
>>>> This decision will be recorded at
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=NpU%2Ftgyleg9wb4ClVZ1tX7ABDoBosmC6QSjC98Gz%2Bb8%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ab6006ec2be48e88f9008d4a210961e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636311639507586899&sdata=IafGoKjeQf7zBqxVj8m380hh8%2BWgU1VfPa2tZjq0Bx8%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> AWK
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>>>> Adobe
>>>>
>>>> akirkpat@adobe.com
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>>> <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 13:12
>>>> To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>>>> Subject: CFC: Change of Content SC
>>>> Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>>>> Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 13:13
>>>>
>>>> Call For Consensus — ends Thursday June 1rd at 1:00pm Boston time.
>>>>
>>>> The Working Group has reviewed and approved a new Success Criterion for
>>>> inclusion in the Editor’s Draft: Change of Content, at level AA, with
>>>> the
>>>> goal of obtaining additional input external to the working group.
>>>>
>>>> Survey results:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2FSCreview_May_17%2Fresults%23xq10&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=xsPnBmJ2rktgbc2zuQSJZUWCeqwNyKO37fWxRmNWk9s%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2FSCreview_May_17%2Fresults%23xq10&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=Okf0JE8v9L3KHEtTV1WoBkkynnQOt01S72abhaualTk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> Call minutes:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F05%2F30-ag-minutes.html%23item04&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=Q6WZlzTLBDzVOua1WgqnBTCXorj4hB8mX8FwHe2meKo%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F05%2F30-ag-minutes.html%23item04&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=%2F3FA5IQMojJ3KxpURZeEw9kaQaai2PlZ7n7liDnuPiQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>> The new SC can be reviewed here, in the context of the full draft:
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fchange-of-content_ISSUE-2%2Fguidelines%2F%23change-of-content&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=zjk6w2LH%2FG8ZuuQ1EAqBTeXdopPfHNs8tqr%2BK33vcNQ%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fchange-of-content_ISSUE-2%2Fguidelines%2F%23change-of-content&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=yJZ%2FnwEScLAYTlwQ2eZ4cxPEWU6dl6rRGhwGyCo2rcs%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
>>>> not
>>>> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
>>>> being
>>>> able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the
>>>> CfC
>>>> deadline.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> AWK
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>>> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
>>>> Adobe
>>>>
>>>> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=WXIOlDgSmjs8RA701PHIwW2a41iGdgiljy4cZ6ePY9w%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> AWK
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>>>> Adobe
>>>>
>>>> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=WXIOlDgSmjs8RA701PHIwW2a41iGdgiljy4cZ6ePY9w%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Sailesh Panchang
>>>Principal Accessibility Consultant
>>>Deque Systems Inc
>>>Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105
>>>Mobile: 571-344-1765
>>
>
>
> --
> Sailesh Panchang
> Principal Accessibility Consultant
> Deque Systems Inc
> Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105
> Mobile: 571-344-1765
>


-- 
Sailesh Panchang
Principal Accessibility Consultant
Deque Systems Inc
Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105
Mobile: 571-344-1765
Received on Thursday, 8 June 2017 18:37:54 UTC

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