- From: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 14:37:19 -0400
- To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
- Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
In my email on Wed, Jun 7, 2017 I requested my comments be recorded as I did not see my concerns addressed. Then following Andrew's request to record my 'objections' specifically, I did so as Objection #1 and #2. However, it is not my intention to stall the CFC process if it is being construed in that fashion. I simply want to record my disagreement and '-1' to the proposal. Thanks, Sailesh Panchang On 6/7/17, Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote: > Hello Andrew, > > Objection #1:I pointed to the definition of 'change of context' > because it covers content changes being discussed in the proposed SC > 3.2.7. So this has not been overlooked by normative WCAG 2.0. > One can and needs to apply the same SCs to content added to the page > as a result of user action just as one applies them to the content on > page load. > That new content must have markup to satisfy 1.3.1 and be in the > reading / navigation order. > The semantics, info-relationship of the new content should be marked > up by assigning a suitable role / aria-live property ... more > important if the content precedes the reading / nav order. > ARIA19 refers to 'There are also a number of special case live region > roles which can be used instead of applying live region properties > directly'. > A global form level error message is related to the entire form and > the relation can be exposed if it is assigned a role / aria-live > property. > Same is true of error messages displayed instantly as one navigates > to the next form field or a message that says an item has been added > to cart, etc. > > Objection #2: > Which control is the first exception referring to: > "a programmatically determined relationship between the new content > and the control that triggers it”. > I understand the trigger to be the submit button for the form is it not? > The form control does not trigger the new content but is the cause of it. > This SC requires an association with the submit button as per my reading. > > My suggestion: > That's why I believe the content changes contemplated by 3.2.7 > (barring continual changes type) do not require a new SC. > Content needs to be added to Understanding doc and techniques doc. > For instance, ARIA19 can be broadened to say how roles (not natively > available) can be applied to convey semantics and info relationships. > > Thanks very much, > > Sailesh Panchang > > On 6/7/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote: >> Sailesh, >> I’m not sure what to record. David had indicated that this is broader >> than >> the requirements for 4.1.2, and in fact the first exception states "There >> is >> a programmatically determined relationship between the new content and >> the >> control that triggers it;” which pretty much means that if you have a >> form >> control with a validation message that comes up when the control is in an >> error state and that is programmatically associated with the control then >> that new content doesn’t need to meet 3.2.7. >> >> 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 are about changes of context. That may or may not be >> related >> to new content on the page. >> >> I think that these issues have been discussed and as a result I didn’t >> think >> that there was an objection. If I misinterpreted and there is an >> objection, >> please clarify what the specific objection is. >> >> Thanks, >> AWK >> >> Andrew Kirkpatrick >> Group Product Manager, Accessibility >> Adobe >> >> akirkpat@adobe.com >> http://twitter.com/awkawk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 6/7/17, 10:43, "Sailesh Panchang" <sailesh.panchang@deque.com> wrote: >> >>>Kindly record this following comment as part of the CFC as the >>>concerns raised by me on this thread have not been addressed. >>>Content on a Web page changing in response to user action is not new. >>>This is a characteristic of dynamic pages and has been around for a >>>dozen years plus. >>>WCAG 2.0 covers dynamic content. This is referenced in the normative >>> text: >>>1. Changes of context cover content changes "if made without user >>>awareness, can disorient users who are not able to view the entire >>>page simultaneously". So 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 address some types of dynamic >>>content. >>>2. SC 4.1.2 covers another block : "notification of changes to these >>>items is available to user agents, including assistive technologies". >>> >>>There are a couple of ARIA techniques that reference WCAG 2 SC for >>>added content: >>>ARIA18: Using role="alertdialog" creates a notification. >>>ARIA19: Using ARIA role=alert or Live Regions to Identify Errors >>> >>>Also, David's last email above notes: "I can see the rational for >>>added content to components in 4.1.2". >>> >>>Therefore one really may need to apply one or more of the existing SCs >>> to evaluate the new content added to a page as a result of user >>>action. One can apply 4.1.2 / 3.3.1 as ARIA 18/19 suggest as well as >>>ensure compliance with 1.3.1, 1.3.2, 2.4.3, 3.2.1, 3.2.2 as the >>>situation demands. >>> >>>Thanks and best wishes, >>>Sailesh Panchang >>>Principal Accessibility Consultant >>>Deque Systems Inc >>>Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105 >>>Mobile: 571-344-1765 >>> >>> >>>On 6/6/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote: >>>> AGWG’ers, >>>> >>>> As we have received substantially positive feedback leading up to this >>>> CfC, >>>> this CfC is agreed on as a consensus opinion of the working group. >>>> >>>> In addition, in response to comments we will also add a reviewer note >>>> to >>>> the >>>> SC to clarify that there are outstanding questions that the Working >>>> Group >>>> is >>>> interested in additional feedback on related to how to best handle >>>> content >>>> with continual changes of content such as games and simulations. >>>> >>>> This decision will be recorded at >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=NpU%2Ftgyleg9wb4ClVZ1tX7ABDoBosmC6QSjC98Gz%2Bb8%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ab6006ec2be48e88f9008d4a210961e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636311639507586899&sdata=IafGoKjeQf7zBqxVj8m380hh8%2BWgU1VfPa2tZjq0Bx8%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> AWK >>>> >>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility >>>> Adobe >>>> >>>> akirkpat@adobe.com >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0 >>>> >>>> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>> <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 13:12 >>>> To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>> >>>> Subject: CFC: Change of Content SC >>>> Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>> >>>> Resent-Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 13:13 >>>> >>>> Call For Consensus — ends Thursday June 1rd at 1:00pm Boston time. >>>> >>>> The Working Group has reviewed and approved a new Success Criterion for >>>> inclusion in the Editor’s Draft: Change of Content, at level AA, with >>>> the >>>> goal of obtaining additional input external to the working group. >>>> >>>> Survey results: >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2FSCreview_May_17%2Fresults%23xq10&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=xsPnBmJ2rktgbc2zuQSJZUWCeqwNyKO37fWxRmNWk9s%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2FSCreview_May_17%2Fresults%23xq10&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=Okf0JE8v9L3KHEtTV1WoBkkynnQOt01S72abhaualTk%3D&reserved=0> >>>> Call minutes: >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F05%2F30-ag-minutes.html%23item04&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=Q6WZlzTLBDzVOua1WgqnBTCXorj4hB8mX8FwHe2meKo%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F05%2F30-ag-minutes.html%23item04&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=%2F3FA5IQMojJ3KxpURZeEw9kaQaai2PlZ7n7liDnuPiQ%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> The new SC can be reviewed here, in the context of the full draft: >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fchange-of-content_ISSUE-2%2Fguidelines%2F%23change-of-content&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=zjk6w2LH%2FG8ZuuQ1EAqBTeXdopPfHNs8tqr%2BK33vcNQ%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fchange-of-content_ISSUE-2%2Fguidelines%2F%23change-of-content&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=yJZ%2FnwEScLAYTlwQ2eZ4cxPEWU6dl6rRGhwGyCo2rcs%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have >>>> not >>>> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not >>>> being >>>> able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the >>>> CfC >>>> deadline. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> AWK >>>> >>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility >>>> Adobe >>>> >>>> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com> >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=WXIOlDgSmjs8RA701PHIwW2a41iGdgiljy4cZ6ePY9w%3D&reserved=0> >>>> Thanks, >>>> AWK >>>> >>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility >>>> Adobe >>>> >>>> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com> >>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C196027b77c97471100f108d4adb38f43%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636324434099973280&sdata=6PJFjS%2FhTN6E24pDZ0KDhN%2FQBvbv5lZDv9XtJheCI%2Fk%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6a7d4a78043f48f5dab308d4a77f44dc%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317612434615141&sdata=WXIOlDgSmjs8RA701PHIwW2a41iGdgiljy4cZ6ePY9w%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Sailesh Panchang >>>Principal Accessibility Consultant >>>Deque Systems Inc >>>Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105 >>>Mobile: 571-344-1765 >> > > > -- > Sailesh Panchang > Principal Accessibility Consultant > Deque Systems Inc > Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105 > Mobile: 571-344-1765 > -- Sailesh Panchang Principal Accessibility Consultant Deque Systems Inc Phone 703-225-0380 ext 105 Mobile: 571-344-1765
Received on Thursday, 8 June 2017 18:37:54 UTC