- From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 06:21:22 -0400
- To: Greg Lowney <gcl-0039@access-research.org>
- Cc: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAAdDpDbv3sU=PKkPV-QWge8ZLZbYC7t10YodaQgESEiMbpGjTg@mail.gmail.com>
I agree with "direction of the text" which could be defined as follows adapted from the CSS base direction definition: Direction of the text: Primary direction in which text is ordered on a line and defines on which sides the “start” and “end” of a line are. Cheers, David MacDonald *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* Tel: 613.235.4902 LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> * Adapting the web to all users* * Including those with disabilities* If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Greg Lowney <gcl-0039@access-research.org> wrote: > I'm concerned that a literal reading of "does not require the user to > scroll to read a line of text" means that content that doesn't fit on one > screen fails, as the user has to scroll to reach additional lines. (This > was not a problem in 1.4.8 due to surrounding language.) Therefore I lean > towards the earlier model that referred to the reading direction of the > text. > > Additionally, if we go with either wording we may need to add exceptions > for (1) content that is not generated by the page author, and (2) content > that includes both vertical and horizontal text, and (3) content rendered > by the user agent in ways that cannot be controlled by the page author. > > Why? Keep in mind that (a) content may mix languages with different > reading directions, and (b) portions of the content may have different > authors, and so the language of the text being displayed may not be under > the control of, or even known by, the primary author of the page. (Examples > include web-based user agents such as forums, messengers, wikis, and email > front-ends.) > > In addition, (c) the page author has no control over how user agents > choose to offer scrolling in standard controls such as text edit fields and > pop-ups. In fact, the "does not require the user to scroll" wording could > be construed to prohibit single-line edit controls because there > reading-direction scrolling is the only way to access long strings, unless > we add an exception. (That *is* true of 1.4.8.) > > Finally, (d) where web-based user agents present user-generated content > that might include whitespace:nowrap, , or the that can force the > line to extend beyond the available width, this SC implies the web-based > user agents have to explicitly strip out all of those before it gets passed > to the hosting user agent for rendering. Again, an exception for content > not generated by the page author would avoid that, if we want to. (It > *might* be covered by the "spatial layout" exception, but I think that's > too much of a stretch.) > > Greg > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC > From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu> <greggvan@umd.edu> > To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> <akirkpat@adobe.com> > Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> <david100@sympatico.ca>, > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. > org" <w3c-waI-gl@w3.org> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > Date: 5/8/2017 1:01 PM > > I think it will be stranger with the “spatial layout” though you might > be able to drop the “fixed”. > > Otherwise - there may be many other things that lumped in here (though I > guess “particular presentation” does get you out of trouble with things we > may not have thought of…. > > *g* > > Gregg C Vanderheiden > greggvan@umd.edu > > > > > On May 8, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote: > > There have also been a few comments on “fixed spatial layout”. > Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, > and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of > text, with the exception of any part of the content where a particular > presentation is essential to the information being conveyed. > > This takes the “particular presentation” from 1.4.5 rather than saying > “fixed spatial layout”. Just a thought to help eliminate a new phrase… > > Thanks, > AWK > > Andrew Kirkpatrick > Group Product Manager, Accessibility > Adobe > > akirkpat@adobe.com > http://twitter.com/awkawk > > From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> > Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:07 > To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Gregg Vanderheiden < > greggvan@umd.edu> > Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC > Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > Resent-Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:08 > > Longer, but addresses the scrolling concern: > Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, > and in a way that does not require the user to either scroll horizontally > to read a line of horizontal text or to scroll vertically to read a line of > vertical text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed > spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed. > > I think that we can support this one in Understanding and save the extra > text: > > Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, > and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of > text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial > layout is essential to the information being conveyed. > > I think that the concept is simple enough that we should be able to write > the SC without referring to the CSS definition for inline base direction, > which I agree with Gregg will make the SC harder to read. > AWK > > > > Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, *and > without requiring scrolling along the <a>inline base direction </a> of the > text, *except for parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is > necessary to use or meaning.” > > > writing mode: > > A writing mode in CSS is determined by the writing-mode > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-writing-mode&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=QqVfbcixYHZ0X5Jk4OhXFBMebepkp4MXeTyJrf6wyLM%3D&reserved=0> > , direction > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0>, > and text-orientation > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-text-orientation&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=F3e%2Fma6Ozqpp3rSrsikYO5T2Q20p%2F17R0iYvpCyYDZ0%3D&reserved=0> > properties. It is defined primarily in terms of its inline base direction > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23inline-base-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=7xIhp883htGKP6MwbaQOy%2FJpfmDEkk1qAapV%2BEdkwq0%3D&reserved=0> > and block flow direction > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23block-flow-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=e%2BADEzAK2xIEwSWa%2Bnxb%2BomG3HenPbF%2FRBiPgsSvchQ%3D&reserved=0> > : > [image: Latin-based writing mode] > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0> > > Latin-based writing mode > [image: Mongolian-based writing mode] > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-lr-reverse.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=f2DxwdFFJxy0tqG46ASCpJYwAx8cKIvkB3Ocvs%2F3t0g%3D&reserved=0> > > Mongolian-based writing mode > [image: Han-based writing mode] > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0>[image: > Han-based writing mode] > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-rl.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=TcW0Z3goocsN8dou%2FVPTiieJUp1fTyGnvkocFwfwUVs%3D&reserved=0> > > Han-based writing > > The inline base direction is the primary direction in which content is > ordered on a line and defines on which sides the “start” and “end” of a > line are. The direction > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0> property > specifies the inline base direction of a box and, together with the > unicode-bidi > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-unicode-bidi&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=gJVojn3eqmo50UZ0G6ZbyXN9Lh1HeohaDJ%2BcZ0JoWfc%3D&reserved=0> property > and the inherent directionality of any text content, determines the > ordering of inline-level content within a line. > > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > Tel: 613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902> > LinkedIn > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=AeMSTlFTtX5aMeordFImAGGmLkMHhRhu7z8nuuonZtM%3D&reserved=0> > twitter.com/davidmacd > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=ZwXQNHCuxZwqiJLnf%2Fckj%2FjiX9JOLWPBoGV%2FSVtyA1M%3D&reserved=0> > GitHub > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=Hao6ZRFvURbqXkyaRanwFs1w2XnAKR%2FfqyhCnd7YMhc%3D&reserved=0> > www.Can-Adapt.com > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=iSOeotC2a2nCCgtr1coAXN09MvjzXDO3ZTyXpmG532s%3D&reserved=0> > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > * Including those with disabilities* > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=aKiDLp1mKGaLXGKPe4E4rJJpoBEBSb2BodwIsBW7IEM%3D&reserved=0> > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu> > wrote: > >> hmmm >> >> ok as long as you define a line of text. Else I might look at a line of >> word wrapped text — and think you mean the whole line including the wrapped >> part — which indeed might require scrolling if the line is long enough and >> the screen small. >> >> not sure how to clear up that ambiguity but other wiser seems to work. >> maybe just add *single*? >> >> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, >> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a *single* line >> of text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial >> layout is essential to the information being conveyed. >> >> >> *g* >> >> Gregg C Vanderheiden >> greggvan@umd.edu >> >> >> >> >> On May 8, 2017, at 2:26 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> >> wrote: >> >> To adjust the text, I’d suggest: >> “Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, >> *and without requiring scrolling in the direction of text* except for >> parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is necessary to use or >> meaning.” >> >> Cribbing from 1.4.8, I think that we can keep it simple and say "in a way >> that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text" >> >> How about: >> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, >> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of >> text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial >> layout is essential to the information being conveyed. >> >> AWK >> >> >> >> > > >
Received on Tuesday, 9 May 2017 10:22:00 UTC