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Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC

From: Greg Lowney <gcl-0039@access-research.org>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:28:00 -0800
To: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <e581f586-54ad-0476-3ca9-3fe1c63e485e@access-research.org>
I'm concerned that a literal reading of "does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text" means that content that doesn't fit on one screen fails, as the user has to scroll to reach additional lines. (This was not a problem in 1.4.8 due to surrounding language.) Therefore I lean towards the earlier model that referred to the reading direction of the text.

Additionally, if we go with either wording we may need to add exceptions for (1) content that is not generated by the page author, and (2) content that includes both vertical and horizontal text, and (3) content rendered by the user agent in ways that cannot be controlled by the page author.

Why? Keep in mind that (a) content may mix languages with different reading directions, and (b) portions of the content may have different authors, and so the language of the text being displayed may not be under the control of, or even known by, the primary author of the page. (Examples include web-based user agents such as forums, messengers, wikis, and email front-ends.)

In addition, (c) the page author has no control over how user agents choose to offer scrolling in standard controls such as text edit fields and pop-ups. In fact, the "does not require the user to scroll" wording could be construed to prohibit single-line edit controls because there reading-direction scrolling is the only way to access long strings, unless we add an exception. (That *is* true of 1.4.8.)

Finally, (d) where web-based user agents present user-generated content that might include whitespace:nowrap, &nbsp;, or the that can force the line to extend beyond the available width, this SC implies the web-based user agents have to explicitly strip out all of those before it gets passed to the hosting user agent for rendering. Again, an exception for content not generated by the page author would avoid that, if we want to. (It *might* be covered by the "spatial layout" exception, but I think that's too much of a stretch.)

     Greg

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC
From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Date: 5/8/2017 1:01 PM
> I think it will be stranger with the “spatial layout”   though you might be able to drop the “fixed”.
>
> Otherwise - there may be many other things that lumped in here  (though I guess “particular presentation” does get you out of trouble with things we may not have thought of….
>
> /g/
>
> Gregg C Vanderheiden
> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>
>
>
>
>> On May 8, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
>>
>> There have also been a few comments on “fixed spatial layout”.
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text, with the exception of any part of the content where a particular presentation is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>
>> This takes the “particular presentation” from 1.4.5 rather than saying “fixed spatial layout”.  Just a thought to help eliminate a new phrase…
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> Adobe
>>
>> akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>>
>> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
>> Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:07
>> To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>, Gregg Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>>
>> Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>> Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC
>> Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>> Resent-Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:08
>>
>> Longer, but addresses the scrolling concern:
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, and in a way that does not require the user to either scroll horizontally to read a line of horizontal text or to scroll vertically to read a line of vertical text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>
>> I think that we can support this one in Understanding and save the extra text:
>>
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>
>> I think that the concept is simple enough that we should be able to write the SC without referring to the CSS definition for inline base direction, which I agree with Gregg will make the SC harder to read.
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, *and without requiring scrolling along the <a>inline base direction </a> of the text, *except for parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is necessary to use or meaning.”
>>
>>
>> writing mode:
>>
>> A writing mode in CSS is determined by the writing-mode <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-writing-mode&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=QqVfbcixYHZ0X5Jk4OhXFBMebepkp4MXeTyJrf6wyLM%3D&reserved=0>, direction <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0>, and text-orientation 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-text-orientation&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=F3e%2Fma6Ozqpp3rSrsikYO5T2Q20p%2F17R0iYvpCyYDZ0%3D&reserved=0> properties. It is defined primarily in terms of its inline base direction <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23inline-base-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=7xIhp883htGKP6MwbaQOy%2FJpfmDEkk1qAapV%2BEdkwq0%3D&reserved=0> and block flow direction 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23block-flow-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=e%2BADEzAK2xIEwSWa%2Bnxb%2BomG3HenPbF%2FRBiPgsSvchQ%3D&reserved=0>:
>>
>> Latin-based writing mode <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Latin-based writing mode
>>
>> Mongolian-based writing mode <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-lr-reverse.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=f2DxwdFFJxy0tqG46ASCpJYwAx8cKIvkB3Ocvs%2F3t0g%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Mongolian-based writing mode
>>
>> Han-based writing mode <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0>Han-based writing mode <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-rl.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=TcW0Z3goocsN8dou%2FVPTiieJUp1fTyGnvkocFwfwUVs%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Han-based writing
>>
>> The inline base direction is the primary direction in which content is ordered on a line and defines on which sides the “start” and “end” of a line are. The direction <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0> property specifies the inline base direction of a box and, together with the unicode-bidi <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-unicode-bidi&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=gJVojn3eqmo50UZ0G6ZbyXN9Lh1HeohaDJ%2BcZ0JoWfc%3D&reserved=0> property and the inherent directionality of any text content, determines the ordering of inline-level content 
>> within a line.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>> LinkedIn
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=AeMSTlFTtX5aMeordFImAGGmLkMHhRhu7z8nuuonZtM%3D&reserved=0>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=ZwXQNHCuxZwqiJLnf%2Fckj%2FjiX9JOLWPBoGV%2FSVtyA1M%3D&reserved=0>
>> GitHub <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=Hao6ZRFvURbqXkyaRanwFs1w2XnAKR%2FfqyhCnd7YMhc%3D&reserved=0>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=iSOeotC2a2nCCgtr1coAXN09MvjzXDO3ZTyXpmG532s%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> /Adapting the web to *all* users/
>> /Including those with disabilities/
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=aKiDLp1mKGaLXGKPe4E4rJJpoBEBSb2BodwIsBW7IEM%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote:
>>> hmmm
>>>
>>> ok as long as you define a line of text.   Else I might look at a line of word wrapped text — and think you mean the whole line including the wrapped part — which indeed might require scrolling if the line is long enough and the screen small.
>>>
>>> not sure how to clear up that ambiguity but other wiser seems to work.   maybe just add *single*?
>>>
>>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a *single* line of text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>>
>>>
>>> /g/
>>>
>>> Gregg C Vanderheiden
>>> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 8, 2017, at 2:26 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To adjust the text, I’d suggest:
>>>> “Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,*and without requiring scrolling in the direction of text*except for parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is necessary to use or meaning.”
>>>>
>>>> Cribbing from 1.4.8, I think that we can keep it simple and say "in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text"
>>>>
>>>> How about:
>>>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>>>
>>>> AWK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Monday, 8 May 2017 23:28:14 UTC

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