Re: please can you update your vote

I updated my vote and added my comments to the survey for Timeouts (copied
here).  Providing this is the wording:

"Where data can be lost due to timeouts, users are warned at the start of a
process about the length of inactivity that generates the timeout, unless
the data is preserved for a minimum of a 24 hours."



My comments:

I'm still not comfortable with the" 24 hours" piece. I prefer 24 hours - I
think 24 hours makes more sense than 20 hours - BUT I feel we will have
conflicts, confusion, and issues if this SC uses 24 hours while the closely
related 2.2.1 Timing Adjustable uses 20 hours.

It's frustrating. IMO the best option would be to go with 24 hours here and
update 2.2.1 to 24 hours as well. But if that's not an option I'm thinking
this SC should use 20 hours as well until both can be updated.

-Marc

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 11:04 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> *Re: Timeouts *
>
> >>>"Where data can be lost due to timeouts, users are warned at the start
> of a process about the length of inactivity that generates the timeout,
> unless submitted data is preserved for a minimum of a 24 hours." (Level A)
>
> I think this language meets the 9 requirements of a WCAG SC.
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria
> We might want to say "warned in text" or some other improvement to the
> line "warned at the start of a process"  but that is editorial...  I'm a +1
> to include it in next draft.
>
> *Re: Minimize User Errors*
>
> "The user can select from a choice of valid input values, unless there are
> more than thirty one valid values for any section of the input field or
> unless this interferes with the main purpose of the content (such as an
> evaluation application).
>
> Alternative formats of separator characters such as dash, dots, bracket
> and spaces are accepted in numerical inputs except for the use of a dot as
> a decimal mark."
>
> I think this meets the requirements of an SC.
>
> I don't think the SC limits the drop down list to only 31... it just says
> that there is no requirement to meet the SC if there are more than 31
> selections to chose from.
>
> So for instance, if a control said "choose your country" it would be not
> failure of this SC to provide a <select> dropdown with 196 countries... nor
> would be a requirement to use a dropdown. In other words, a textbox with an
> accessible name saying "Your country" would pass this.
>
> Also, I don't think this SC limits the author to <select> boxes. They
> could also use checkboxes or radio buttons, or picker widgets like a date
> picker or any other of a host of ways that users can select choices among a
> group.
>
> So from my perspective this SC language is viable for inclusion in the
> next draft. It's a big requirement but I think its value is well
> established. My only concern is that these days I find <select> boxes to be
> finicky to work with screen readers. Sometimes it is because there is a
> layer of <li> elements on top of the <select> to style the drop down.
> Sometimes it just that some screen readers have trouble with labels on
> <select> for reasons I can't explain. However, that seems like something
> that will be overcome. I support the SC.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
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>
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> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
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> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:19 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>> *Re: Timeouts*
>>
>> Reviewing that GitHub issue, and the final language being proposed
>> remains unclear (to me).  Are we now being asked to vote on the following
>> text as the new proposed Success Criteria:
>>
>> "Where data can be lost due to timeouts, users are warned at the start of
>> a process about the length of inactivity that generates the timeout, unless
>> submitted data is preserved for a minimum of a 24 hours." (Level A)
>>
>> If that is the case, I support this new language - *This SC is ready to
>> go*.
>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>> *Re: Minimize User Errors*
>>
>> "The user can select from a choice of valid input values, unless there
>> are more than thirty one valid values for any section of the input field or
>> unless this interferes with the main purpose of the content (such as an
>> evaluation application).
>>
>> Alternative formats of separator characters such as dash, dots, bracket
>> and spaces are accepted in numerical inputs except for the use of a dot as
>> a decimal mark."
>>
>> I am concerned that this SC has lost its way, and morphed into something
>> different.
>>
>> What started as a requirement to Minimize User Errors has now devolved to
>> a SC that appears to target the <select> element only, by setting a maximum
>> number of child <option> values (i.e. 31).
>>
>> While I can see the value in limiting or constraining choices/options to
>> aid with memory and other coga issues, I question whether the current
>> language is sufficient to address the core issue originally articulated:
>>
>> "The intent of this Success Criteria is to minimize user generated errors
>> by detecting, and when reliable and possible, automatically correcting
>> common input errors."
>>
>>
>> One possible "Technique" to avoid/meet this new SC would be to simply not
>> use <select> elements in your forms (and thus avoiding *any* quantity of
>> values being offered) - which I do not think is the intent of the Coga TF,
>> nor something that I could support.
>>
>> As such, while I strongly support the intent of this proposed SC, I
>> reject that current revised language as "missing the mark", and request
>> further editorial revisions.
>>
>> JF
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 8:06 AM, lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have edited the time outs and Minimize user errors  drafts. I think
>>> we may be very near consensus. Please can you update your vote
>>> 1) Timeouts: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Timeouts_Issue14/
>>> 2) Minimize user errors: https://www.w3.org/200
>>> 2/09/wbs/35422/minimize-user-errors-13/
>>>
>>>
>>> For Minimize user errors we need to point out in the understanding
>>> section that the user can also enter free form text and that if any section
>>> of the input field is like a field record (so if each digit going up to 9
>>> in a large number is not included)
>>>
>>> You will also find in the github issue some more notes. please feel free
>>> to add there more clarifications that may be needed.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Lisa Seeman
>>>
>>> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>
>
>