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Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?

From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:56:07 +0200
Message-Id: <B6F2CCD0-F4A9-4B16-964F-44653A78EF02@umd.edu>
Cc: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
if the java app does not pull content from the web using http:  — then I would agree that it is not covered.

If the java app (or any app)  DOES draw content from the web using http:// — then it would be a user agent.  It would be covered by user agent guidelines — and its content (that it pulls using http://)  would be web content. 


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu



> On Apr 28, 2017, at 12:48 PM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote:
> 
> I generally agree, and wonder if it matters for that example?
>  
> Any organisation providing PDFs by FTP will also want to provide them over the web (HTTP), therefore you would want/need the same PDFs to meet WCAG. In that case the definition doesn’t impact the organisation.
>  
> I’m still not convinced that Java web start should be covered though, and going back to the web-page definition I’d argue there is no user-agent. The definition implies the user-agent already exists to do the rendering, which doesn’t appear to be the case for downloading a Java app.  The user has Java, and downloads an app.
>  
> It would be like saying C (the programming language) is the user agent, and you download a browser for each site.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> -Alastair
>  
>  
> From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>>
> Date: Friday, 28 April 2017 at 11:36
> To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>
> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?
> Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> Resent-Date: Friday, 28 April 2017 at 11:37
>  
> I would agree.   FTP not covered. 
>  
> WCAG conformance is based on the web page  which is defined as 
>  
> Web page
> a non-embedded resource obtained from a single URI using HTTP plus any other resources that are used in the rendering or intended to be rendered together with it by a user agent <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#useragentdef>
>  
>  
> Unless someone figured out how to do FTP using http —  I do not see how they say FTP is covered by WCAG.
>  
>  
> now  WCAG is a ruler and you can use it for many things.   The Access Board is using it for docs and software — but that is just someone using it that way.     It does not make the standard cover those  (and indeed it doesn’t COVER them  — other provisions are needed as well. )
>  
> But as to whether the WCAG 2.0 Working GROpu  intended WCAG 2.0 to cover FTP  — the answer is “Not to my knowledge — and I was co-chair of the WG
>  
>  
> best 
>  
>  
> G
>  
>  
> Gregg C Vanderheiden
> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>  
>  
>  
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 3:03 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Ø  that PDF delivered via FTP is in scope...
>>  
>> This is something the group doesn’t seem to agree on.  I’d like to get consensus on this as well.  I was told by members of the working group who were involved during WCAG 2.0’s creation that it was not covered.
>>  
>> Jonathan
>>  
>> From: John Foliot [mailto:john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:46 PM
>> To: Laura Carlson
>> Cc: James Nurthen; Gregg C Vanderheiden; Jonathan Avila; w3c-waI-gl@w3. org; public-low-vision-a11y-tf
>> Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?
>>  
>> Clarification / correction / addition:
>> 
>>> ...If Web Start is used to transport and then launch a User Interface-based application or content​, I'd argue that yes, it is in scope in the same way that PDF delivered via FTP is in scope...
>>  
>> JF
>>  
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com <mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Gregg,
>> 
>> Did you mean WCAG's Web page definition?
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef>
>> 
>> Or something else?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kindest Regards,
>> Laura
>> 
>> On 4/26/17, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>> wrote:
>> > Can someone point to that definition because I can't find it.
>> >
>> >> On Apr 26, 2017, at 12:32, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> the definition of Web Content is in the definition section of WCAG.
>> >>
>> >> if something meets that definition  - it would be Web Content as per
>> >> WCAG.
>> >>
>> >> g
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Gregg C Vanderheiden
>> >> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:56 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If when it is run it uses HTTP to get its content then it is web
>> >>>> content. What is download it is simply a special user agent.
>> >>>
>> >>> A lot of things can be sent via HTTP.  Remote Desktop can be run over
>> >>> HTTP -- through a special user agent.  This definition might include a
>> >>> lot of things we haven't considered.  PhoneGap wraps web content that
>> >>> uses HTTP.  So does that make PhoneGap a user agent?
>> >>>
>> >>> Jonathan
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden RTF [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>]
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 2:48 PM
>> >>> To: Laura Carlson
>> >>> Cc: w3c-waI-gl@w3. org; public-low-vision-a11y-tf; James Nurthen
>> >>> Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?
>> >>>
>> >>> Can't quite tell from your description. If it is downloaded and installed
>> >>> and then run it is not the web application.
>> >>>
>> >>> If when it is run it uses HTTP to get its content then it is web content.
>> >>> What is download it is simply a special user agent.
>> >>>
>> >>>> From your description it isn't quite clear which of the two cases it is
>> >>>
>> >>> Gregg
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com <mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hello Everyone,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> James asked on Oracle's Adapting Text comment [1] if Java Web Start
>> >>>> [2] [3] is covered by WCAG.  He said, "The application is started from
>> >>>> a URL and the application is downloaded, installed updated and run
>> >>>> directly when clicking on a URL in a web page."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thoughts?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kindest Regards,
>> >>>> Laura
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [1]
>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wcag21_issues_222-23issuecomment-2D297476165&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=qCcV_q2_pBoCNU0qmktn3O6iqXJUvRJvTOx3FVtJRZU&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wcag21_issues_222-23issuecomment-2D297476165&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=qCcV_q2_pBoCNU0qmktn3O6iqXJUvRJvTOx3FVtJRZU&e=>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [2]
>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Java-5FWeb-5FStart&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=ucxbJAZcLaQyGWHQAB4dxyvx_9w3C2uajdYaFXtvIWw&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Java-5FWeb-5FStart&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=ucxbJAZcLaQyGWHQAB4dxyvx_9w3C2uajdYaFXtvIWw&e=>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [3]
>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.java.com_en_download_faq_java-5Fwebstart.xml&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=cPjasa_fhYvGiueGWfxz6G5pSOhMMmEgajnrJA6lFr8&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.java.com_en_download_faq_java-5Fwebstart.xml&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=cPjasa_fhYvGiueGWfxz6G5pSOhMMmEgajnrJA6lFr8&e=>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Laura L. Carlson
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Laura L. Carlson
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>
>>  
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
> 
>  


Received on Friday, 28 April 2017 10:56:47 UTC

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