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Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?

From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:48:46 +0000
To: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
CC: "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <596252AD-2868-4E36-9D74-A8A0F65EC335@nomensa.com>
I generally agree, and wonder if it matters for that example?

Any organisation providing PDFs by FTP will also want to provide them over the web (HTTP), therefore you would want/need the same PDFs to meet WCAG. In that case the definition doesn’t impact the organisation.

I’m still not convinced that Java web start should be covered though, and going back to the web-page definition I’d argue there is no user-agent. The definition implies the user-agent already exists to do the rendering, which doesn’t appear to be the case for downloading a Java app.  The user has Java, and downloads an app.

It would be like saying C (the programming language) is the user agent, and you download a browser for each site.

Cheers,

-Alastair


From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Date: Friday, 28 April 2017 at 11:36
To: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?
Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Friday, 28 April 2017 at 11:37

I would agree.   FTP not covered.

WCAG conformance is based on the web page  which is defined as

Web page
a non-embedded resource obtained from a single URI using HTTP plus any other resources that are used in the rendering or intended to be rendered together with it by a user agent<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#useragentdef>


Unless someone figured out how to do FTP using http —  I do not see how they say FTP is covered by WCAG.


now  WCAG is a ruler and you can use it for many things.   The Access Board is using it for docs and software — but that is just someone using it that way.     It does not make the standard cover those  (and indeed it doesn’t COVER them  — other provisions are needed as well. )

But as to whether the WCAG 2.0 Working GROpu  intended WCAG 2.0 to cover FTP  — the answer is “Not to my knowledge — and I was co-chair of the WG


best


G


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>



On Apr 28, 2017, at 3:03 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:

>  that PDF delivered via FTP is in scope...

This is something the group doesn’t seem to agree on.  I’d like to get consensus on this as well.  I was told by members of the working group who were involved during WCAG 2.0’s creation that it was not covered.

Jonathan

From: John Foliot [mailto:john.foliot@deque.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:46 PM
To: Laura Carlson
Cc: James Nurthen; Gregg C Vanderheiden; Jonathan Avila; w3c-waI-gl@w3. org; public-low-vision-a11y-tf
Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?

Clarification / correction / addition:
...If Web Start is used to transport and then launch a User Interface-based application or content​, I'd argue that yes, it is in scope in the same way that PDF delivered via FTP is in scope...

JF

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com<mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Gregg,

Did you mean WCAG's Web page definition?
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef


Or something else?

Thanks.

Kindest Regards,
Laura

On 4/26/17, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>> wrote:
> Can someone point to that definition because I can't find it.
>
>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 12:32, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> the definition of Web Content is in the definition section of WCAG.
>>
>> if something meets that definition  - it would be Web Content as per
>> WCAG.
>>
>> g
>>
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden
>> greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:56 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If when it is run it uses HTTP to get its content then it is web
>>>> content. What is download it is simply a special user agent.
>>>
>>> A lot of things can be sent via HTTP.  Remote Desktop can be run over
>>> HTTP -- through a special user agent.  This definition might include a
>>> lot of things we haven't considered.  PhoneGap wraps web content that
>>> uses HTTP.  So does that make PhoneGap a user agent?
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden RTF [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org<mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 2:48 PM
>>> To: Laura Carlson
>>> Cc: w3c-waI-gl@w3. org; public-low-vision-a11y-tf; James Nurthen
>>> Subject: Re: Is Java Web Start covered by WCAG?
>>>
>>> Can't quite tell from your description. If it is downloaded and installed
>>> and then run it is not the web application.
>>>
>>> If when it is run it uses HTTP to get its content then it is web content.
>>> What is download it is simply a special user agent.
>>>
>>>> From your description it isn't quite clear which of the two cases it is
>>>
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com<mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> James asked on Oracle's Adapting Text comment [1] if Java Web Start
>>>> [2] [3] is covered by WCAG.  He said, "The application is started from
>>>> a URL and the application is downloaded, installed updated and run
>>>> directly when clicking on a URL in a web page."
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_w3c_wcag21_issues_222-23issuecomment-2D297476165&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=qCcV_q2_pBoCNU0qmktn3O6iqXJUvRJvTOx3FVtJRZU&e=
>>>>
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Java-5FWeb-5FStart&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=ucxbJAZcLaQyGWHQAB4dxyvx_9w3C2uajdYaFXtvIWw&e=
>>>>
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.java.com_en_download_faq_java-5Fwebstart.xml&d=DwIFAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=ELX2morANsauwtoroVrFb2wD7s1u7PsR47DTXqRvJ34&m=IAo8TM-kAptGWdSD9HSxzH9qhNNtNWsGxUTs3R1wsjw&s=cPjasa_fhYvGiueGWfxz6G5pSOhMMmEgajnrJA6lFr8&e=
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Laura L. Carlson
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
Laura L. Carlson



--
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion

Received on Friday, 28 April 2017 10:49:25 UTC

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