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Re: Adapting Text proposals for next week's survey. (was Re: Adding Greg L's Adapting Text proposals to the Wiki in anticipation of a vote between J&K and H&I)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 04:57:43 -0500
Message-ID: <CAOavpveA7H-6nXCTWjCOb=Jy7xpTN7iZ5npu2z_-DLt2UCn0Gg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: GLWAI Guidelines WG org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Hi Andrew and all,

Thank you for capturing the proposal that Greg L. initiated on last
Thursday's call.

This version as stated below seems to relegate testing metrics to
supporting documents.

Wayne has offered ideas on testability:

https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/276

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JanMar/1379.html

Will these be adequate for SC's testability?

I have asked this before with negative results but I will ask it again for
GregL's proposal.

Can anyone not live with pushing testing metrics to supporting documents?

Thanks again.

Kindest regards,

Laura

On Apr 14, 2017 3:43 PM, "Andrew Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:

Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see the word “it” in J&K. No
matter, I think that this captures what we were talking about at the end of
the call…

Here’s the proposed versions with a few edits:

(A or AA)
When the following author-specified text properties can be changed, the
change does not result in a loss of essential information or functionality:

   -
   - font family
   - text color and background color
   - line spacing (leading)
   - letter spacing (tracking)
   - word spacing


(AAA)
A mechanism is available to achieve the following text customization (except
for images of text and captions):

   - font family can be selected by the user
   - text color and background color can be selected by the user
   - line spacing (leading) can be set to at least 1.5
   - letter spacing (tracking) can be set to at least 0.12 em
   - word spacing can be set to at least 0.16 em


I believe that the key question we need to have answered is whether we want:

   1. A split between a “A” version and a “AAA” version where the basis of
   the split is that in the “A” version the intent is to avoid disruption when
   it is possible to change text properties, and in the “AAA” version the
   intent is to require that the user can change the text properties and when
   they do that disruptions are avoided. This means that in the new Gregorian
   document format that has non-existent support for text customization the
   content will pass essentially automatically, but in a format where the user
   has the ability to change these properties that the author needs to verify
   that the content still works.
   2. Essentially make the AAA item above the basis for a A/AA SC.


I’m concerned that testing the “A” version will require that we set
parameters on the items. I don’t think that this is a problem for anything
except for the font family. All of the other items either don’t impact the
visual layout or provide a testable range, but there is so much variability
in font characteristics that we would essentially be requiring a nearly
unlimited scope, and that is a problem. We could say “any three different
fonts", but then we could have people only testing with the tiniest fonts.

I think that we should go with Greg’s A/AAA above (I like my edits, but up
for discussion) and we should remove the font family from the “A” version.

What do people think?

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com
http://twitter.com/awkawk

From: Gregg Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2017 at 15:50
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Joshue O Connor <
josh@interaccess.ie>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, Greg Lowney <
gcl-0039@access-research.org>, Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>, WCAG <
w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Adapting Text proposals for next week's survey. (was Re:
Adding Greg L's Adapting Text proposals to the Wiki in anticipation of a
vote between J&K and H&I)

On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Gregg,

Replies inline

just replace  IT with what IT means.


Can you suggest text that everyone can live with?


I don’t have the language in front of me — but what do you mean by IT?
Just put that in place of the word


Lets' find out what happens with Proposal L&M on the survey.


I think we are slipping backwards.  I thought we resolved this before but …


the language
Except for images of text and captions, text styles of the page can be
overridden as follows with no loss of essentialcontent or functionality.
assumes that all technologies allow this -  and therefore outlaws all
technologies that do not.

So anything that doesn’t have style sheets or similar mechanism will not be
able to conform to 2.1?

or am I missing something?


As Bruce pointed out, it goes to accessibility support.


That is not the meaning of accessibility support.      If the * author*
cannot do it because there *is no way* to do it *with the technology* they
are using — then it means that the author cannot use that technology and
conform to WCAG 2.1.       So that means 2.1 is in effect *barring* use of
a technology.

We tried to not create SC that could not be met with all major technologies
used in Web pages today.

That is all I am saying.



This goes back to my statement that we should have *NO new SC* that we do
not *also have sufficient techniques for * - at least for the

perhaps we should add that as a requirement for new SC.

there have to be sufficient techniques for the SC for all major web
technologies.   (
*that is — if WE don’t know how to create conforming content for the major
technologies — we should require that others do it. *


This was one reason that WCAG 2.0 took so long.  Because the WG checked its
work and confirmed it was doable before releasing.    Lot of work but it
really paid off.  We found so many things / errors / problems when we
actually tried to apply all our great advice as requirements.


ciao


Gregg


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu



On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Gregg,

Replies inline

just replace  IT with what IT means.


Can you suggest text that everyone can live with?

Lets' find out what happens with Proposal L&M on the survey.


I think we are slipping backwards.  I thought we resolved this before but …


the language
Except for images of text and captions, text styles of the page can be
overridden as follows with no loss of essentialcontent or functionality.
assumes that all technologies allow this -  and therefore outlaws all
technologies that do not.

So anything that doesn’t have style sheets or similar mechanism will not be
able to conform to 2.1?

or am I missing something?


As Bruce pointed out, it goes to accessibility support.

Kindest regards,
Laura

-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Saturday, 15 April 2017 09:58:18 UTC

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