- From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:22:08 -0600
- To: "'John M Slatin'" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, "'Gez Lemon'" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>
- Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
RE your comments John. No phrase has the same meaning if you change the words significantly. RE deleting the parentheticals... I would agree except if you say "The old may knocked over the bucket" most everyone would know what you meant. So that would make it not an idiom according to our definition. However, the only way that people do this is by first translating it back into "kicked the bucket" then understanding it. So we can either decide that that isn’ t a problem - or we can find another way to say this. Thoughts every one? I'm tempted to go with Johns suggestion, delete these, and not worry about it. Everyone who reads the definition will know what it means even if you can think of a way to argue it. So current proposal is same as #2 except delete parenteticals that talk about figuring out that it is a poorly executed version of the idiom. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of John M Slatin Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 4:45 PM To: Gregg Vanderheiden; Gez Lemon Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: RE: Definition of idiom 2 This is good. I've made a couple small suggestions below, marked JS. John "Good design is accessible design." Dr. John M. Slatin, Director Accessibility Institute University of Texas at Austin FAC 248C 1 University Station G9600 Austin, TX 78712 ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 4:11 PM To: 'Gez Lemon' Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: Definition of idiom 2 Good suggestion. That makes the proposal <proposal> Idiom phrase whose meaning cannot be deduced from the meaning of the individual words and where you can't change the wording very much without losing the intended meaning. JS: change "you can't change the wording very much" to "the wording cannot be changed significantly" Example 1: "kicking the bucket" means dying. But you can't change it to "kicking the buckets" or "kicking the tub" or "booting the bucket" or "knocking over the bucket" without losing its meaning (unless someone converts it back into "kicking the bucket" in their head). JS: delete the parenthetical phrase about someone converting it in their head... Example 2: "spilling the beans" means revealing a secret. However "knocking over the beans" or "spilling the vegetables" does not mean the same thing (unless someone translates it back into "spilling the beans"). JS: delete the parenthetical Example 3: The phrase in Japanese <span lang="jp"> さじを投げる(どうするこ ともできなくなり、あきらめること</span> literally translates into "he threw a spoon". But it means that there was nothing he could do and finally he gave up. Example 4: The Dutch phrase <span lang="nl">Hij ging met de kippen op stok</span> literally translates into "He went to roost with the chickens". But it means that he went to bed early. </proposal>
Received on Sunday, 5 March 2006 23:22:28 UTC