- From: Bim Egan <bim@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 16:12:30 +0100
- To: "'Denis Boudreau'" <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com>
- Cc: "'EOWG \(E-mail\)'" <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>
Hi Denis,
I wasn't at the last meeting,, or I would have spoken up in defense of the
scope attribute that you've tested in tables on:
http://denisboudreau.org/stuff/eowg/scopedtable-example.html
I don't know about VoiceOver , as I don't have a Mac, but in both Jaws 14
and NVDA, in IE11 and with Jaws in FireFox 29 the scope attribute does what
it should, which is give directional guidance and limitation for the output
of header cells. This doesn't work when cells are read one at a time, by
just using the down arrow for navigation, but this isn't how a dedicated
screen reader user would do it. We tend to use the reader's table navigation
shortcuts to get the desired output:
. Move down = Ctrl+Alt+DownArrow (UpArrow to move up)
. Move Left= Ctrl+Alt+LeftArrow (or RightArrow to reverse).
In short, the scope attribute prevents the announcement of an incorrect
header as it tells the screen reader that the TH only applies to cells in
the range given as the scope value.
NB. Jaws output is very dependent on setting values. I have my table reading
set to "Read only marked headers".
Using the table navigation above, my results for your test tables:
+ Example 1 (using scope):
.Jaws 14.0.9002 / Internet Explorer 11:
1. Navigating down the second (Cities) column the correct TH (country) is
announced.
2. Navigating back into the first (Country) column, only the content of
that cell is announced.
* Jaws uses a different vocal tone to differentiate between TH and TD
content.
.NVDA 2014.1 / Firefox 29:
1. Navigating down the second (Cities) column the correct TH (county) is
announced.
2. Navigating back into the first (Country) column, only the content of
that cell is announced.
* NVDA announces the row number between the TH and TD content, (the TH is
announced first (giving context to the TD content.
+ Example 2 (without using scope):
Differences only
.Jaws 14.0.9002 / Internet Explorer 11:
2. Navigating back into the first (Country) column: the Countries in all
rows above the current cell are announced as header content. (This is
erroneous and confusing information).
.NVDA 2014.1 / Firefox 29:
No difference.
.NVDA 2014.1 / Internet Explorer 11:
2. Navigating back into the first (Country) column (in any but the first
row), The country in row 1 is announced as the header for the current cell.
(This is erroneous information).
Firefox updated from v28 to 29 between the start and end of my testing, so
I'm not sure, but I think NVDA / FF28 behaved like NVDA in IE11, which is
why I added this as an extra result.
Hope this helps,
Bim
-----Original Message-----
From: Denis Boudreau [mailto:dboudreau.mail@gmail.com] On
Behalf Of Denis Boudreau
Sent: 02 May 2014 19:47
To: Shawn Henry
Cc: EOWG (E-mail); Eric Eggert
Subject: Re: EOWG Tables tutorial worksession Monday 5 May
Hello EO,
As promised this morning, here are a few test cases to
validate the support and behaviours of "irregular" data
tables, to which a the first column would all be header
cells with the information organized as rows instead of
columns. The TH elements have been assigned a scope
attribute in the first example, and no such attributes in
the second example. Findings are reported under each
example. The third example is only there to compare
behaviours when the header cells are on the first row as
opposed to the first column. Results are. well.
disappointing. Unless I missed something, we need to
reconsider the examples accordingly (or at the ver least,
thoroughly test how is table is conveyed in various
browser/at combinations):
http://denisboudreau.org/stuff/eowg/scopedtable-example.html
While I'm very confident about the reliability of the
tests under VoiceOver and NVDA, I'm less confident about
JAws, which I barely use. So anyone willing to double
check that is more than welcomed to do so.
As usual, questions and comments are welcomed.
Also, I had mentioned proposing another complex table
example for multiple rows of header cells and/or multiple
columns of header cells. This example is below:
<table>
<caption>Fruits Inventory</caption>
<thead>
<tr>
<td rowspan="2"> </td>
<th id="variety" rowspan="2">Varieties</th>
<th id="quantity" colspan="2">Quantity</th>
<th id="delivery" rowspan="2">Delivery</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<th id="store1" headers="quantity">Store 1</th>
<th id="store2" headers="quantity">Store 2</th>
</tr>
</head>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th rowspan="2" id="apples">Apples</th>
<th id="spartan" headers="variety
apples">Spartan</th>
<td headers="quantity store1 apples
spartan">50</td>
<td headers="quantity store2 apples
spartan">50</td>
<td headers="delivery apples
spartan">June 1st</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th id="macintosh"headers="variety
apples">MacIntosh</th>
<td headers="quantity store1 apples
macintosh">50</td>
<td headers="quantity store2 apples
macintosh">50</td>
<td headers="delivery apples
macintosh">June 15th</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th id="oranges">Oranges</th>
<th id="navel"headers="variety
oranges">Navel</th>
<td headers="quantity store1 oranges
navel">100</td>
<td headers="quantity store2 oranges
navel">100</td>
<td headers="delivery oranges
navel">June 30th</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
/Denis
On May 2, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Shawn Henry <shawn@w3.org> wrote:
> Hi EOWG folks,
>
> We will have another worksession on the Tables
Tutorial, focusing on
>
<https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/caption-summary/> and
> <https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/tips/>
>
> Monday 5 May 2014
> 1:00 Central / 2:00 Eastern / 20:00 CEST
>
> Remember to get all your comments on the Tables
Tutorial into Github, e-mail, *or* wiki
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Tables>
*by Wed 7 May* so that Eric can address everything and
prepare for a (hopefully final) discussion at our 9 May
teleconference.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~Shawn
>
Received on Monday, 5 May 2014 15:12:52 UTC