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Re: EOWG Tables tutorial worksession Monday 5 May

From: Denis Boudreau <info@denisboudreau.org>
Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:44:56 -0400
Cc: Eric Eggert <ee@w3.org>, Shawn Henry <shawn@w3.org>, "EOWG (E-mail)" <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>
Message-Id: <47F208FC-5870-4182-8CD0-FA2CF861B496@denisboudreau.org>
To: sylvie.duchateau@snv.jussieu.fr
Thanks for the feedback, folks.

I admittedly didn’t take the time to run VO over the multi-level header example, but know it,s ok from a code perspective. Can’t say about VO, but I am too somewhat limited with it, so certainly not the best person to test it. I would trust Bim and Sylvie much more than I would trust myself. :)

As I feared, I will not be able to join the call in a few minutes. I have just too much work on my plate and I could be called into a client meeting at any time to go over the scope of an upcoming assessment. I can try to catch up during the week, but it’s likely that I will not be looking into this further before the regularly scheduled call on Friday. Sorry.

Clearly, I need to clone myself. Got any good URL I could look into for that? :/

/Denis




On May 5, 2014, at 11:22 AM, Sylvie Duchateau <sylvie.duchateau@snv.jussieu.fr> wrote:

> Hello Denis and all,
> I looked at your examples with NVDA and Firefox 29.
> I need more time to look at them with another screen reader.
> In both first examples, NVDA does not link the cells, but if you use table navigation, by pressing ctrl+alt+arrows, it associates Brussels with Belgium, France with Paris, UK with London.
> In the third example, if you only go dow with arrow keys, it first announces Column 1 Belgium, column 2 France, and so on.
> then it says : line 2 Belgium column column 1, Brussels, France Column 2, Paris, Holland column 3, amsterdam...
> If you are on the second line and navigate with ctrl+alt+right and link arrow, NVDA says: "Holland column 3, amsterdam.
> One thing to note is that you need to go to preferences, documents, and check announce tables and check anounce column and line headers, or something similar. Are those two boxes checked?
> Best
> Sylvie
> 
> Le 05/05/2014 09:30, Eric Eggert a écrit :
>> Hi Denis,
>> 
>> thank you for this research.
>> 
>> On 2 May 2014, at 20:47, Denis Boudreau wrote:
>> 
>>> As promised this morning, here are a few test cases to validate the support and behaviours of “irregular" data tables, to which a the first column would all be header cells with the information organized as rows instead of columns. The TH elements have been assigned a scope attribute in the first example, and no such attributes in the second example. Findings are reported under each example. The third example is only there to compare behaviours when the header cells are on the first row as opposed to the first column. Results are… well… disappointing. Unless I missed something, we need to reconsider the examples accordingly (or at the ver least, thoroughly test how is table is conveyed in various browser/at combinations):
>>> 
>>> http://denisboudreau.org/stuff/eowg/scopedtable-example.html
>> 
>> AT support for tables seems to be nowhere near where it should be, even your example below seems to fall apart pretty miserably in Voice Over (or I’m using it wrong, which is likely).
>> 
>>> While I’m very confident about the reliability of the tests under VoiceOver and NVDA, I’m less confident about JAws, which I barely use. So anyone willing to double check that is more than welcomed to do so.
>>> 
>>> As usual, questions and comments are welcomed.
>>> 
>>> Also, I had mentioned proposing another complex table example for multiple rows of header cells and/or multiple columns of header cells. This example is below:
>> 
>> (I have put it online here: http://jsbin.com/cosov/1)
>> 
>> 
>> I noticed – with my limited VO knowledge – that when I get into the “Store 1” cell it reads “Quantity, Apples, Store 1” which is not what we want although we explicitly told the cell that we want “Quantity, Store 1” spoken. For “Store 2” I get no header read at all.
>> 
>> When I get to Apples, it reads “Macintosh, Apples”. On “Spartan” the output for me is just “Varieties, Spartan”. In the Spartan / Quantity 1 cell it announces “Quantity, 50” without announcing “Store 1”, “Apples” or “Spartan”.
>> 
>> That said, I like the example and we should have a look of bringing it into the tutorials.
>> 
>> Best, Eric
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> <table>
>>> <caption>Fruits Inventory</caption>
>>> <thead>
>>> <tr>
>>> <td rowspan="2">&#160;</td>
>>> <th id="variety" rowspan="2">Varieties</th>
>>> <th id="quantity" colspan="2">Quantity</th>
>>> <th id="delivery" rowspan="2">Delivery</th>
>>> </tr>
>>> <tr>
>>> <th id="store1" headers="quantity">Store 1</th>
>>> <th id="store2" headers="quantity">Store 2</th>
>>> </tr>
>>> </head>
>>> <tbody>
>>> <tr>
>>> <th rowspan="2" id="apples">Apples</th>
>>> <th id="spartan" headers="variety apples">Spartan</th>
>>> <td headers="quantity store1 apples spartan">50</td>
>>> <td headers="quantity store2 apples spartan">50</td>
>>> <td headers="delivery apples spartan">June 1st</td>
>>> </tr>
>>> <tr>
>>> <th id="macintosh"headers="variety apples">MacIntosh</th>
>>> <td headers="quantity store1 apples macintosh">50</td>
>>> <td headers="quantity store2 apples macintosh">50</td>
>>> <td headers="delivery apples macintosh">June 15th</td>
>>> </tr>
>>> <tr>
>>> <th id="oranges">Oranges</th>
>>> <th id="navel"headers="variety oranges">Navel</th>
>>> <td headers="quantity store1 oranges navel">100</td>
>>> <td headers="quantity store2 oranges navel">100</td>
>>> <td headers="delivery oranges navel">June 30th</td>
>>> </tr>
>>> </tbody>
>>> </table>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> /Denis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 2, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Shawn Henry <shawn@w3.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi EOWG folks,
>>>> 
>>>> We will have another worksession on the Tables Tutorial, focusing on <https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/caption-summary/> and <https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/tables/tips/>
>>>> 
>>>> Monday 5 May 2014
>>>> 1:00 Central / 2:00 Eastern / 20:00 CEST
>>>> 
>>>> Remember to get all your comments on the Tables Tutorial into Github, e-mail, *or* wiki <https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Tables> *by Wed 7 May* so that Eric can address everything and prepare for a (hopefully final) discussion at our 9 May teleconference.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> ~Shawn
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Eric Eggert, Web Accessibility Specialist
>> WAI-ACT Project
>> 
>> I’m yatil on IRC.
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Sylvie Duchateau
> Association BrailleNet
> Tél.: +33 (0) 1 44 27 26 25 / Fax : +33 (0) 1 44 27 34 38
> www.braillenet.org / www.accessiweb.org
> 
> 
Received on Monday, 5 May 2014 17:45:26 UTC

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