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Re: COMMENTARY on Tutorials (English this time)

From: Coralie Mercier <coralie@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:29:19 +0900
To: "CE Whitehead" <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
Cc: w3c-translators@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.tjsam5wnsvvqwp@phoenix.local>


I will point your communication to Dave Raggett, the tutorials  
commentaries you mention not being translations of W3C recommendations,  
notes or outreach materials.

Thanks for the clarification.

Best regards,
Coralie

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:02:01 +0900, CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi!  Sorry for taking so long to get back.
>
> Actually the commentary would probably be inappropriate if Dr. Raggett  
> were in the process of revising either tutorial-- "Advanced HTML" or  
> "Adding a Touch of Style."
> Because I assume that some of the issues I am thinking of addressing  
> will be addressed in any revision.
>
> Things I wanted to include in the commentary include the following:
>
> *note on more updated addressing (with id rather than the a tag with the  
> name attribute)  now in use (something Dr. Raggett did address as  
> soon-to-come on the web in his tutorial) (the old a name  will jiggle if  
> someone defines a.hover in the style codes for links, so the new  
> addressing gives the writer better control of display)
> * note the use of float rather than simply align for formatting images  
> and other elements on the page (float is important in page formatting in  
> my opinion since it can be used to float a tab menu to the left of the   
> main page contents)
> * give more details on formatting/sizing tables as a %, in em, and in  
> pixels
> * give details on the java script event onload, and on other java script  
> events which are used to start the execution of code; since Dr. Raggett  
> had an example of java script using the onload event in his  
> "Advanced.html" tutorial, I wanted to point out that onload could only  
> be placed once in a page, and then mention where there were other events.
> * give a brief introduction to java script also
>
> In the meantime, I have been working on my own commentary on html page  
> creation where I just reference the W3C documents and do not comment on  
> any one in particular; it seems to not require copyright permission and  
> works fine for me for now if Dr. Raggett is currently revising either  
> tutorial:
> http://www.geocities.com/quaiouestenglish/Creezunhabitatweb/EnglCommentsonHTMLjscript.html
>
> It also provides an example of the kind of perhaps detailed commentary I  
> am talking about; I still have not put all the information I want in it.
>
> So perhaps that is all that is needed for now, and not a W3C linked  
> commentary on any tutorial.
>
> Let me know if/when the W3C thinks on commentary on the two Raggett  
> documents, "Advanced.html" and "Adding a Touch of Style" would be in  
> order.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --C. E. Whitehead
> cewcathar@hotmail.com
>
> * * *
> Bonjour!
>
> Il sera probable que le commentaire ne sera pas pertinent si Dr. Raggett  
> est en train de reecrire ou "Advanced.html" ou "Adding a Touch of Style".
>
> Y inclus dans ce que je pensais a inclure dans le commentaire:
> * les facons variees d'adresser le but d'un lien qui se trouve dans la  
> page ou se trouve aussi le lien;
> * l'utilisation de la propriete CSS float (alternative a la  
> propriete/l'attribut CSS align) pour preciser l'affichage d'un image ou  
> de n'importe quel element dans une page web; cette propriete/c'attribut  
> s'utilise actuellement plus et plus pour la configuration d'une page  
> web; par exemple, on peut utiliser float pour "float" un "tab menu" a la  
> gauche du contenu d'une page;
> * les facons de preciser la taille d'un tableau (comme % ou en em ou en  
> pixel);
> * l'evenement javascript onload et autres evenements javascript; cet  
> evenement javascript s'utilise dans le petit programme javascript--inclu  
> par Dr. Raggett comme exemplaire dans son didacticiel, "Advanced.html";  
> il me semblait qu'il vaudrait mieux expliquer un peu le javascript dans  
> cet exemplaire, par exemple, l'evenement onload ne peut s'utiliser  
> qu'une seul fois dans une page web;
> * quelques renseignements de plus sur javascript.
>
>
> Pour l'instant, je suis en train de creer une page dont j'explique un  
> peu l'html et le javascript--avec des references aux documents du w3c,  
> mais sans etre commentaire sur un document particulier du w3c; voici le  
> lien:
> http://www.geocities.com/quaiouestenglish/Creezunhabitatweb/EnglCommentsonHTMLjscript.html
>
>
> Il se trouve dans ce document-ci le type de commentaire que je pensais a  
> creer!
>
> (En plus, je ne crois pas qu'il y a le probleme de droit de  
> copy/copyright qu'il y a avec le commentaire et ainsi que je peux le  
> faire sans vous demander permission.)
>
> Peut-etre ca va pour le moment;   s'il vous plait, n'hesitez pas a me  
> contacter en cas ou le w3C s'interesse a quelque chose de plus, c'est a  
> dire, a un commentaire sur les documents du Dr. Raggett, "Advanced.html"  
> et "Adding a Touch of Style".
>
> En vous remerciant a l'avance,
>
> C. E. Whitehead
> cewcathar@hotmail.com
>
>
>> From: "Coralie Mercier" <coralie@w3.org>
>> To: "CE Whitehead" <cewcathar@hotmail.com>, w3c-translators@w3.org
>> CC: www-html-editor-request@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: COMMENTARY on Tutorials (English this time)
>> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:31:14 +0900
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>>
>> Hello
>>
>> I don't know what a commentary on tutorials is and how relevant that is  
>> to  the w3c-translators list. Can you please clarify?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Coralie
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:28:12 +0900, CE Whitehead  
>> <cewcathar@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I am thinking of commenting on the following tutorials (in  
>>> English  this time):
>>>
>>> Dave Raggett, "More Advanced Features" (of HTML),
>>> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Advanced.html
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> Dave Raggett, "Adding a Touch of Style" (to HTML pages),
>>> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Guide/Style.html
>>>
>>> Please let me know if such commentary would be in order
>>> (if Dr. Raggett is about to update either page, then I can skip this   
>>> commentary and wait and see if this commentary is in order)?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --C. E. Whitehead
>>> cewcathar@hotmail.com
>>>
>>> The main notes I have are:
>>>
>>> 1.  GENERAL:
>>> XML served as a form of HTML, with XHTML, is now starting to be   
>>> preferred over HTML on the World Wide Web (XML is important in the   
>>> semantic web; it's possible to create one's own semantic categories   
>>> using XML; XML uses tree structures; trees--with roots, branches, and   
>>> branches from the branches (though I myself tend to think of the XML   
>>> structures as parenthetical comments inside of other parenthetical   
>>> comments) are one kind of data structure; tables--or arrays of   
>>> arrays--are another).
>>> The XHTML has some similarities to HTML, but has its own  
>>> peculiarities.   Persons interested in learning HTML might also be  
>>> interested in learning  about XML and XHTML!  See the W3C  
>>> Recommendation, XHTML 1.0, for  information about XHTML.
>>>
>>> 2.  TABLES ("More Advanced Features"); FONT ("Adding a Touch of Style")
>>>
>>> The focus of the information/examples about Tables in "More Advanced   
>>> Features"/font size in "Adding a Touch of Style," seems to be in  
>>> general  aimed at telling HTML writers how to create Tables that are  
>>> more  accessible to all, with the font size relative to the user  
>>> settings, and  the cell size flexible to accommodate when words are  
>>> not wrapped.
>>>
>>> 2.a.  Tables of Pre-defined size (versus tables where the width is   
>>> defined as a percentage of window width; or tables where the width is   
>>> undefined) ("More Advanced Features"):
>>> Some writers however still use Tables to format pages; though style   
>>> codes that define divisions within the page today can similarly format  
>>> a  page into rows and columns.
>>> If one opts to set the size of one's table in pixels, then perhaps  
>>> one  should also specify the exact size of the font rather than a  
>>> relative  font size, or the table size and column widths might be  
>>> resized anyway  (the Mozilla browser, which never wraps longer text  
>>> strings in a table  cell, does this; while the Internet Explorer  
>>> browser can also wrap  longer text strings, for example, when the text  
>>> string indicates a link).
>>> It's wise thus to opt for a relatively large font I guess to begin  
>>> with  in pre-sized tables, to accommodate all users.
>>> It's of course possible to control word-wrapping completely in table   
>>> cells by inserting an additional division (a paragraph or other   
>>> division) within the cells, but word-wrapping is not one of the  
>>> possible  attributes of table cells so it does not work with style  
>>> definitions of  table cells; you have to add the division  (for HTML  
>>> versions 4.0, 4.01).
>>>
>>> 3.  The Banner Add java script code in the section on Adding Java  
>>> Script  to HTML Pages ("More Advanced Features")
>>>
>>> Onload is an action which can be called on only once in a page; the   
>>> "onload" code is normally placed in the Body tag and when placed in  
>>> the  Body tag will generally happen about the same time the page  
>>> loads  (I do  not know that much java script though; oh well; want to  
>>> comment on it  anyway).
>>>
>>> 4.  ("Adding a Touch of Style")
>>> It's generally argued that the style codes (normally placed in the   
>>> headers; ideally place these in the headers, just above the body tag,  
>>> if  there are no java script functions; otherwise place these in the  
>>> headers  just before any java script functions are defined as java  
>>> script  functions sometimes make use of the style definitions; of  
>>> course, some  web hosts incorporate one's page into the body of a  
>>> host-created page  and then the only place to place the style and java  
>>> script function  definitions is under the body tag alas) are the best  
>>> way to specify  paragraph and division formats.
>>> To change the style of a page using style definitions at the page  
>>> top,  one just has to redo the style codes at the top and then check  
>>> the new  display in a few browsers to make sure the page looks right.
>>> MS Word of course places the style information in the page division  
>>> tags  themselves, in the body, so it's not so easy to edit Word  
>>> created pages  using HTML; additionally, style definitions at the top  
>>> of the page are  overwritten when edited by MS Word.
>>> (For someone who did not want to get Front Page or learn much HTML, I   
>>> redid her pages with the style codes in the page division tags so  
>>> that  the page would not be automatically changed by Word.)
>>>
>>>
>>> I've got a few other notes as well, but nothing else major.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by   
>>> style, age, and price. Try it!   
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Coralie Mercier  Communications | Administration  mailto:coralie@w3.org
>>              World Wide Web Consortium - http://www.w3.org
>>    MIT/CSAIL - 32 Vassar St. - Room G528 - Cambridge, MA 02139 - USA
>> T:+33(0)616457202 F:+33(0)492387822  http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by  
> style, age, and price. Try it!  
> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline
>



-- 
Coralie Mercier  Communications | Administration  mailto:coralie@w3.org
              World Wide Web Consortium - http://www.w3.org
    MIT/CSAIL - 32 Vassar St. - Room G528 - Cambridge, MA 02139 - USA
T:+33(0)616457202 F:+33(0)492387822  http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/
Received on Wednesday, 29 November 2006 15:29:45 UTC

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