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Re: Dojinshi & Accessibility was: A new Semantic Web logo?

From: ~:'' ありがとうございました。 <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 10:47:20 +0100
Message-Id: <2213CED0-EC2E-43F2-835F-840E55A16946@btinternet.com>
Cc: Benjamin Nowack <bnowack@semsol.com>, semantic-web@w3.org
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>


[1] Doug proposes including text with opacity="0", it's also  
necessary to add title and desc for each file.

As you say it is certainly necessary to add RDF metadata, for  
machines one wants copyright info but also something that makes it as  
easy as possible for users to find and understand.

should text and paths be surrounded by an anchor link to http:// 
www.w3.org/2001/sw/ ?

[2] This loses much of the potential of font, for the present.


Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet

[1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/attachment.cgi?id=493

[2] This still doesn't take account of users preferences, or language.
It seems clear that the user with specific needs should be able to  
render any SVG text in a font of their choice using a style sheet.  
Similarly some software, perhaps on mobile phones might have 'fixed  
fonts' and not be able to render the glyphs provided. eg safari,  
camino and mozilla use different default fonts.
If that much is agreed, then W3C has no absolute control over the  
rendering in any case.
Are examples in other languages to be allowed, eg greek japanese  
russian etc?

my concern is as expressed elsewhere that the licence should be  
broader, preferably PD.
but in any case so that the graphic can be displayed alone.
ie for symbol users, rather than readers.



On 12 Oct 2007, at 17:07, Ivan Herman wrote:

Dear Jonathan,

let me give some backgroun explanation and propose a solution to see if
that would work with you.

It is true that, in an ideal world, SVG should include texts as, well,
texts, and not in geometry. And the specification of SVG allows that. It
is also possible to add a description of a font (or the characters that
are used from a font) into the SVG file itself to ensure a proper
rendering on all environment, independently of the fonts being stored

The very practical problem, however, is that a number of SVG players
(eg, Mozilla) do not understand (yet, hopefully!) those text statements
with font descriptions. In order to have the logo displayed properly, we
had to go  back to the original design, do a version that turned the
characters into geometry, and export that into SVG.

However: what I would propose to do is to add RDF metadata into the SVG
file (this is perfectly possible, too) that would include dc terms
including a description containing the text of the logo (plus, eg,
copyright info). Is this agreeable to you? This is something that could
be done within a few days (alas, it should be done individually in a
text editor:-)


~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:
> Benji,
> I'm not at sure this is trivial, I'd like to see what the Comm and SW
> WGs suggest.
> I've asked the SVG WG to propose or point to an example of excellence.
> presumably they should contain some CC licence information, or at  
> least
> a pointer to the copyright notice, etc.
> who might be appropriate to discuss this with?
> who created the original design?
> one further concern is translation, in their current form it doesn't
> seem possible, due to both the design and copyright restrictions. Our
> users for instance cannot read, but might well benefit from the symbol
> in understanding something of it's meaning in a future context.
> regards
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
> I'm also considering how to annotate the weather symbols I published
> recently on wikipedia.
> On 12 Oct 2007, at 14:11, Benjamin Nowack wrote:
> Hi Jonathan,
> thanks for the hint. I didn't create the SVGs, and I personally  
> wouldn't
> have the relevant skills to add the textual information, but I'm sure
> the Comm team is more than happy to replace the files if someone sends
> them properly annotated ones. Or is that a trivial task? I think it's
> great that they provide SVGs at all.
> Cheers,
> Benji
> On 11.10.2007 15:56:13, ~:''  
> ありがずうございたしたã 
> €‚ wrote:
>> I've only had a chance to have a brief look at the new logo.
>> Benji
>> I like the SVG graphic But....
>> It does have significant defects.
>> the text-rendering is defined but there is no text.
>> in fact the file has literally not a single content identifier of any
>> sort.
>> unless the file is rendered it is literally impossible to tell what
>> it might be.
>> pace those that render in their minds...
>> The Web Accessibility Initiative WCAG guidelines suggest this is not
>> good practice.
>> I'd hope the SWEO and Comm teams might also include relevant semantic
>> information.
>> regarding the exceptionally restrictive copyright restrictions it
>> might be relevant to review Lawrence Lessig on Dojinshi.
>> apologies if this seems heavy handed, or I got the wrong end of the
>> stick
>> as I say in a rush..
>> regards
>> Jonathan Chetwynd
>> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>> Michael Schneider wrote:
>>>     http://www.w3.org/2007/10/sw-logos.html


Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
Received on Saturday, 13 October 2007 09:47:41 UTC

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