Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour

On 11/14/11 5:03 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>
> On 14 Nov 2011, at 21:16, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>
>> On 11/14/11 2:59 PM, Peter Williams wrote:
>>> i opened my wordpress.com <http://wordpress.com> about page for 
>>> editing, leaving only the <title> element from the previous post. I 
>>> then edited in suggested material.
>>>
>>> Wordpress doesnt like the material, reducing it to the following, 
>>> upon publication.
>>>
>>> <span style="display:hidden;">
>>>
>>> <div class="rdf2rdfa">
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <div>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <div />
>>> </div>
>>> </div>
>>> <div>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <div />
>>> </div>
>>> </div>
>>> <div>
>>> <div class="description">
>>> <div />
>>> </div>
>>> </div>
>>> </div>
>>> </span>
>>> Wordpress wont LET ME publish the RDFa.
>
Henry,

> yes, that's silly. We need to convince them to integrate WebIDs in the 
> platform. I am not sure why we don't have them interested in doing that.
And this is the problem we have, the folks behind products like 
WordPress have not interest in anything associated with the letters 
R-D-F. This is the conundrum. They will not be convinced.


>
>>> I have not got yet to the point where I can refer to it, as it 
>>> doesnt exist yet. Common or garden web2.0 culture wont LET me 
>>> publish data. Its not a matter of idealism, yet; it just doesnt work 
>>> with the web that (consumer) folks have to work with.
>>> Now, im hoping someone knows a magic switch in the wordpress-cloud 
>>> tenant config - that enables a wordpress site to publish a little graph.
>> Peter,
>>
>> The magic switch doesn't exist.
>
>
> Well you could use data.fm. You can publish all the rdf you like there.
>
> http://data.fm/

See my earlier comment. Letters R-D-F isn't the answer :-)


Kingsley
>
>
>
>>
>> You have to make a choice here, really.
>>
>> Again, have you looked at what we do re. putting the fingerprint of 
>> the claims based security token in the post via AtomPub?
>>
>>> Im working up the nerve to host my own wordpress server (in 
>>> microsoft webmatrix beta 2 hosting platform on IIS7, whose sample 
>>> app already comes with OAUTH, openid, facebook, yahoo, twitter, 
>>> live, etc BUILTIN). Perhaps, as "full" administrator I can tweak the 
>>> settings so its all less paranoid.
>>
>> Full admin might be an option, but then what have you really gained? 
>> I thought your quest was about really simple and non disruptive entry 
>> point for WebID exploitation.
>>
>> Kingsley
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> From: mischa@mmt.me.uk
>>> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:09:24 +0000
>>> CC: baptiste33@gmail.com; home_pw@msn.com; public-xg-webid@w3.org
>>> To: henry.story@bblfish.net
>>> Subject: Re: long term webid of peter, contrary to rumour
>>>
>>> Hi Henry,
>>>
>>> inline ...
>>> On 14 Nov 2011, at 12:35, Henry Story wrote:
>>>
>>>     Thanks Mischa,
>>>
>>>     If that works, then I wonder if the problem with our RDFa
>>>     example on http://webid.info/spec#rdfa-html-notation is that we
>>>     place the namespaces in the <html> root element. Perhaps an
>>>     example that places the namespaces in the div as you do below
>>>     would make it easier to think of. Is that why Baptiste
>>>     Lafontaine believed that one could not add RDFa to Wordpress?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, perhaps that is the issue, as far as I am aware there is no 
>>> need to put the namespace declarations in the <html> element, am 
>>> sure my example works too.
>>>
>>> Regarding your example, I am not sure it is ideal for when I try and 
>>> convert it to triples I get the following:
>>>
>>> <> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> "Joe" .
>>> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type> 
>>> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#RSAPublicKey> .
>>> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#modulus> "\n       
>>>  00:cb:24:ed:85:d6:4d:79:4b:69:c7:01:c1:86:ac:\n       
>>>  c0:59:50:1e:85:60:00:f6:61:c9:32:04:d8:38:0e:\n       
>>>  07:19:1c:5c:8b:36:8d:2a:c3:2a:42:8a:cb:97:03:\n       
>>>  98:66:43:68:dc:2a:86:73:20:22:0f:75:5e:99:ca:\n       
>>>  2e:ec:da:e6:2e:8d:15:fb:58:e1:b7:6a:e5:9c:b7:\n       
>>>  ac:e8:83:83:94:d5:9e:72:50:b4:49:17:6e:51:a4:\n       
>>>  94:95:1a:1c:36:6c:62:17:d8:76:8d:68:2d:de:78:\n       
>>>  dd:4d:55:e6:13:f8:83:9c:f2:75:d4:c8:40:37:43:\n       
>>>  e7:86:26:01:f3:c4:9a:63:66:e1:2b:b8:f4:98:26:\n       
>>>  2c:3c:77:de:19:bc:e4:0b:32:f8:9a:e6:2c:37:80:\n       
>>>  f5:b6:27:5b:e3:37:e2:b3:15:3a:e2:ba:72:a9:97:\n       
>>>  5a:e7:1a:b7:24:64:94:97:06:6b:66:0f:cf:77:4b:\n       
>>>  75:43:d9:80:95:2d:2e:85:86:20:0e:da:41:58:b0:\n       
>>>  14:e7:54:65:d9:1e:cf:93:ef:c7:ac:17:0c:11:fc:\n       
>>>  72:46:fc:6d:ed:79:c3:77:80:00:0a:c4:e0:79:f6:\n       
>>>  71:fd:4f:20:7a:d7:70:80:9e:0e:2d:7b:0e:f5:49:\n       
>>>  3b:ef:e7:35:44:d8:e1:be:3d:dd:b5:24:55:c6:13:\n        91:a1\n     
>>>  "^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#hex> .
>>> _:bnode1 <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#public_exponent> 
>>> "65537"^^<http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#int> .
>>> <> <http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#key> _:bnode1 .
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is worth cleaning up, so that if someone cuts and pastes 
>>> the example html, they get something which parses correctly.
>>>
>>> Great work on the webid stuff people!
>>>
>>> Mischa *back to lurking :)
>>>
>>>
>>>     Also I notice that there is no hyperlink in that section to the
>>>     RDFa spec.
>>>     As a reminder, to add improvements to the webid spec people can
>>>     clone the repository at
>>>
>>>     https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID
>>>
>>>     make changes and ask us to review them for inclusion, so that we
>>>     can merge those changes in.
>>>
>>>     Henry
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 14 Nov 2011, at 11:32, Mischa Tuffield wrote:
>>>
>>>         Peter,
>>>
>>>         To be more specific (was on the train when I sent the last
>>>         email) you could take an rdfa fragment like below (wrapped a
>>>         hidden span). Taken from my foaf file:
>>>
>>>
>>>         <span style="display:hidden;">
>>>         <div xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>>>              xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
>>>              xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>>>              xmlns:cert="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#"
>>>              xmlns:rsa="http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#"
>>>              xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"
>>>              xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#"
>>>              class="rdf2rdfa">
>>>         <div class="description" typeof="rsa:RSAPublicKey">
>>>         <div rel="cert:identity">
>>>         <div class="description" about="#mischa" typeof="foaf:Person">
>>>         <div property="foaf:name" content="Mischa Tuffield"/>
>>>         </div>
>>>         </div>
>>>         <div rel="rsa:modulus">
>>>         <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>>>         <div
>>>         property="cert:hex" content="e7667f3211b800705be6712544e192cc1fe1410895f287947d72b8f524b3442a3344fa2282255d6a24956bd3c64d4133ab795d3a74b3ec4f779b1d8653cf7e2a4acd290bc648614f8fc1b0c3c19d27ca139a0736c88d97ab612263d95ceb87c5c76805428bacb4f6cff44616248ab18bc8a84cdda0157f523877eb873d9f536fbce5c836c312c4ce29ec8723060dab2e352d425c9d1f485c6709677ba8dc98fcddb04fed398f9a6153f125ba66dda1e65717f9ca29a07e90edd5d90dc94acb26ebdfec6174fceaab2e691ea08469d222b764146a4d98265d2865c3807e484223b6ab4c8fc738bf0806e0e3cfbb5d37ea095c658051c7ccbf1ce6ae28c9d14f6d"/>
>>>         </div>
>>>         </div>
>>>         <div rel="rsa:public_exponent">
>>>         <div class="description" typeof="rdfs:Resource">
>>>         <div property="cert:decimal" content="65537"/>
>>>         </div>
>>>         </div>
>>>         </div>
>>>         </span>
>>>
>>>         Mischa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                 How do I alternatively stuff an rdf/XML stream into
>>>                 HTML as a data island (eg using an object tag)
>>>
>>>                 Concerning my opera unite endpoint, the whole point
>>>                 is that a uncontracted, public client cannot use my
>>>                 time sensitive graph - unless I'm online and I
>>>                 choose to release it (under copyright rules that
>>>                 prohibit compilation etc). But that is advanced, and
>>>                 experimntal - presaging the day when webid can be
>>>                 used for business and commerce).
>>>
>>>                 As it stands, I first just need to use Wordpress to
>>>                 host a little graph (a name and an int...) Ideally
>>>                 those who follow my site (about 1 person) will get
>>>                 an email with the graph embedded when i update the
>>>                 post/page, and this (pretty common) data flow can
>>>                 drive their id and graph caching when the email
>>>                 reader fires up the xHTML handler of the Mac/pc/unix.
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Sent from my iPhone
>>>                 On Nov 13, 2011, at 2:17 PM, "Henry Story"
>>>                 <henry.story@bblfish.net
>>>                 <mailto:henry.story@bblfish.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>                     On 13 Nov 2011, at 22:48, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>
>>>                         On 11/13/11 3:53 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>                             On 13 Nov 2011, at 21:31, Kingsley
>>>                             Idehen wrote:
>>>
>>>                                 On 11/13/11 4:48 AM, Henry Story wrote:
>>>
>>>                                     On 13 Nov 2011, at 01:52, Peter
>>>                                     Williams wrote:
>>>
>>>                                         atyorkporc.wordpress.com
>>>                                         <http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/>ive
>>>                                         hosted on the blog's front
>>>                                         page the site's contact page
>>>                                         (fromwordpress.com
>>>                                         <http://wordpress.com/>). It
>>>                                         has in HTML the kind of
>>>                                         information normallyshown in
>>>                                         a foaf card. it has my long
>>>                                         term webid, hosted on an
>>>                                         opera unite endpoint. Its
>>>                                         not a foaf card like others
>>>                                         and neither is the endpoint
>>>                                         (being only available when I
>>>                                         am online).
>>>
>>>
>>>                                     That's ok. As the spec points
>>>                                     out (
>>>                                     http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/ )
>>>                                     all that is required for WebID
>>>                                     is the publication of the public
>>>                                     key at that endpoint with
>>>                                     some RDF markup. (btw, we should
>>>                                     perhaps add a link to the W3C
>>>                                     how to on publishing multiple
>>>                                     formats in a content negated format)
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 Is it about publication of a public
>>>                                 key with RDF markup? Is that the
>>>                                 narrative? If it is, then be up
>>>                                 front about it as I am tired of
>>>                                 cycling this RDF wagon re. the
>>>                                 problem it introduces, unnecessarily.
>>>
>>>                                 If this is an RDF only solution, say
>>>                                 so, and stick to it. Then live with
>>>                                 the consequences.
>>>
>>>
>>>                             Is there an issue you have with the
>>>                             spec? If so please tell us.
>>>
>>>
>>>                         I have an issue with narratives the end up
>>>                         with RDF as being inextricable re. WebID and
>>>                         its verification protocol. That's what I
>>>                         have an issue with. If the spec toes that
>>>                         line, then I have a problem with the spec.
>>>                         If the spec is RDF specific then qualify the
>>>                         whole thing as RDF based WebID, nice and simple.
>>>
>>>
>>>                     We have RDF/XML, Turtle, RDFa markup in html.
>>>                     Where is RDF/XML inextricably linked? We speak
>>>                     about the model, and we show the serialisations
>>>                     that are widely accepted.
>>>
>>>                     There has to be a way of telling in follow your
>>>                     nose like manner how to get the graph, which
>>>                     does not rely on things like: if the service is
>>>                     called Facebook, then do this, but if it is
>>>                     Twitter then do that, and if is some other site
>>>                     then do that.
>>>
>>>                     Or how do you think we should currently work
>>>                     with Peter William's profile? Should we perhaps
>>>                     add something to the spec that says if the URL is
>>>
>>>                     $ curl
>>>                     -ihttp://home.homepw2.operaunite.com/webserver/content/
>>>                     HTTP/1.1 503 Service Unavailable
>>>                     Content-type: text/html
>>>                     Connection: close
>>>                     Server: UniteProxy/0.2.5
>>>
>>>                     <html><frameset cols="100%"><frame
>>>                     src="http://unite.opera.com/general/noservice/homepw2/home/"
>>>                     /></frameset></html>
>>>
>>>                     then we should go to
>>>                     http://yorkporc.wordpress.com/ and read the
>>>                     public key there by searching for the "RSA
>>>                     Public Key" string
>>>                     and then finding the key by guessing that that's
>>>                     probably a modulus because it looks like one?
>>>
>>>                     And even if we were to find the public key
>>>                     there, we would find that the webid does not
>>>                     point to the right place but to a different
>>>                     document that is unavailable. But perhaps that's
>>>                     acceptable because the spec should say that if
>>>                     its Peter William's site we should have an
>>>                     exception.
>>>
>>>                     Clearly you are not going to defend such a
>>>                     position. But currently I don't see how Peter
>>>                     Williams can claim that he even has a WebID, not
>>>                     in any meaningful way related to this group's work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                             Most implementations I know of now are
>>>                             working with RDF serialisations, so
>>>                             those are the ones we should be sticking
>>>                             by initially, as we did from the very start.
>>>
>>>
>>>                         Again, what on earth does that mean? That
>>>                         there will be a narrative utterly laced with
>>>                         that bias? Again, there's nothing wrong with
>>>                         saying: this is RDF based WebID etc.. That's
>>>                         better that pretending it isn't be it via
>>>                         spec or narrative.
>>>
>>>
>>>                     So what do you want the spec to say?
>>>
>>>
>>>                             Those serialisations are well documented
>>>                             and clearly specified.
>>>
>>>                         So?
>>>
>>>                         Kingsley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                                     I see that your WebID Profile
>>>                                     Page - as it is called in the
>>>                                     spec section 2.3 - is in html.
>>>                                     So I guess it's meant to be
>>>                                     parsed as RDFa.
>>>                                     The RDFa
>>>                                     http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/ validation
>>>                                     service seems to only return a
>>>                                     few URLs for your page.
>>>
>>>                                     I don't see that you have
>>>                                     specified any of the cert or rsa
>>>                                     namespaces so if you want to
>>>                                     turn that into a WebID you do
>>>                                     need to follow the explanation here
>>>
>>>                                     http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/#rdfa-html-notation
>>>
>>>                                     If you find problems or
>>>                                     unclarities in any aspect of the
>>>                                     spec, please explain which part
>>>                                     of the text is unclear, and what
>>>                                     wording you suggest would help
>>>                                     improve it.
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 You are talking syntax again. Can
>>>                                 WebID not be discussed conceptually
>>>                                 without syntax specificity? Is this
>>>                                 impossible?
>>>
>>>
>>>                             I am talking spec.
>>>
>>>                             In the future when semantics is more
>>>                             clearly and widely understood then one
>>>                             will no longer need to mentions syntax.
>>>                             But at present that is not the case. The
>>>                             document is an evolving one.
>>>
>>>                             Henry
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 Kingsley
>>>
>>>
>>>                                     Henry
>>>
>>>
>>>                                         I happen to enforce more
>>>                                         privacy than perhaps do most
>>>                                         consumers (being a security
>>>                                         type engineer who is
>>>                                         experimenting with
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Social Web Architect
>>>     http://bblfish.net/
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________
>>> Mischa Tuffield
>>> Email: mischa@mmt.me.uk <mailto:mischa@mmt.me.uk>
>>> Homepage: http://mmt.me.uk/
>>> WebID: http://mmt.me.uk/foaf.rdf#mischa
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> President&  CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

Received on Monday, 14 November 2011 22:08:23 UTC