Re: Presentation to Web Payments IG

@Melvin +1000
On Oct 18, 2014 10:37 AM, "Melvin Carvalho" <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 18 October 2014 13:57, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>  On 2014-10-18 12:40, Joseph Potvin wrote:
>>
>> Market  Share :
>>
>>
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/android-ios-market-share-data-and-apples-iphone-6-2014-8
>>
>> http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/06/android-still-growing-market-share-by-winning-first-time-smartphone-users/
>>
>>  Given your friend's comment that "Several of my friends in the payment
>> business here in XXXXX helped Apple design Apple Pay", s/he is apparently a
>> little too influenced by all the unnecessary money that Apple users spend
>> on their devices:
>>
>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2013/11/15/android-dominates-market-share-but-apple-makes-all-the-money/
>>
>>  No argument from me that Apple devices tend to be more elegant, and
>> also tend to instill more brand loyalty than other makes. That's fine. The
>> rest of the world treats such devices as practical commodity items. Open
>> standards enable consumers to easily do comparison shopping and to jump
>> ship to other brands in an open market. Apple will continue to resist any
>> open standards that make comparison shopping and brand jumping easy for
>> their market segment.
>>
>> The W3C community should not lose sleep over the continued efforts by
>> Apple to loudly distinguish itself from the open standards movement.
>>
>>
>> There's (AFAICT) no indication that any of the platform vendors or
>> payment networks actively support an open standards movement for payments.
>> VISA, MasterCard, PayPal and Alibaba are not even W3C members.  They did
>> however all joined the closed FIDO alliance.
>>
>> The Google Wallet is still not open source so it seems that payments
>> indeed is a pretty "religious" issue.
>>
>> From my watchtower things look pretty bad.
>>
>
> Anders, this isnt how open standards work.
>
> Web payments is not in competition with Apple, or google wallet, or any
> other payment system, for that matter.
>
> In just the same way that linux is not in competition with NVIDIA, western
> digital or Sony.
>
> What happens is that you create an open and universal core that works on
> its own merits.  Then you can hook in other systems (think linux drivers)
> to become compatible.  Some systems will be trivial to write drivers for,
> and some will take some ingenuity.  No secret there.  The firms that on
> this will probably do very well for themselves.
>
> What is being done here is to create a universal interoperable standard
> close to the openness of the web (we hope!).  I'm defining universal to
> mean the property that it is interoperable with any other universal
> system.  None exist as of today, but if another comes along and passes the
> TOII (Test of Independent Invention) we automatically increase traction.
>
> Other payment processors will be hooked in based on how much manpower is
> available.
>
> The W3C creating yet another payment system is not viable, and not worth
> spending time on.  The W3C creating a universal payment system aligned to
> the web IS worth doing, and there's some track record here...
>
> We are about co operation, not competition ...
>
>
>>
>> Anders
>>
>>
>>
>>  Joseph
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Anders Rundgren <
>> anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-10-17 23:10, Manu Sporny wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have a presentation[1] to the Web Payments Interest Group at W3C TPAC
>>>> at 11am on Monday, October 27th 2014. The goal is to introduce the new
>>>> IG members to the work we've been doing over the past 4+ years in the
>>>> Web Payments CG. We have 60 minutes allocated, with 20 minutes of
>>>> presentation and 40 minutes of discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Please review the slides and let us know if there is anything that is in
>>>> there that shouldn't be, or something that should be in there that
>>>> isn't.
>>>>
>>>> https://web-payments.org/slides/2014/tpac-wpig-wpcg/
>>>>
>>>
>>> It was a nice presentation.  Personally I'm worried that messages like
>>> the
>>> one I got yesterday from a payment specialist will turn out to be true:
>>>
>>>  "Apple Pay is very good, both systematically and cryptographically.
>>>   Additionally, they did their ecosystem homework, signing up MasterCard,
>>>   Visa and Amex, and the five largest payment processors. I believe that
>>>   they have in effect created the next generation of payment card.
>>>   Because of the ecosystem involvement, Apple will be forced to allow
>>>   this to be implemented by others so that this method becomes
>>> ubiquitous.
>>>   If Apple Pay has any significant adoption in 2015, the method will
>>> quickly
>>>   be spread everywhere. It will be very hard for any architecturally
>>> competing
>>>   schemes to get any adoption. (Several of my friends in the payment
>>> business
>>>   here in XXXXX helped Apple design Apple Pay. There are many years of
>>> payment
>>>   experience embedded in its design.)"
>>>
>>> IMO, the W3C must carefully consider the value proposition of any future
>>> work
>>> so that it has a chance of getting traction.
>>>
>>> Challenging existing payment networks (and Apple) could be such an option
>>> but wouldn't that be ignored/voted down by the major platform vendors?
>>>
>>> A web interface to Apple Pay could be another venue.  BTW, I think this
>>> would
>>> be trivial since the only thing you need (AFAICT...) is opening an
>>> opaque channel
>>> to the merchant web-server since the actual payment is dealt with in the
>>> phone.
>>>
>>> Regarding the Web Payment CG and IG, I see no apparent relationship
>>> since the
>>> IG seems to focus on payment initiation [1] which exclude credentials,
>>> signatures
>>> etc. because these things belong to the specific payment system itself.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> 1] "While the Web Payments Interest Group is not chartered to develop new
>>>     payment methods, it will create a framework to ensure that Web
>>> applications
>>>     can interface in a standard ways with all current and future payment
>>> methods"
>>>
>>>
>>>> -- manu
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Draft_F2F_Agenda_-_TPAC_2014_-_27/28_October_2014#Day_1_.28October_27.29
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>
>>
>>
>