Re: Presentation to Web Payments IG

On 18 October 2014 13:57, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  On 2014-10-18 12:40, Joseph Potvin wrote:
>
> Market  Share :
>
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/android-ios-market-share-data-and-apples-iphone-6-2014-8
>
> http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/06/android-still-growing-market-share-by-winning-first-time-smartphone-users/
>
>  Given your friend's comment that "Several of my friends in the payment
> business here in XXXXX helped Apple design Apple Pay", s/he is apparently a
> little too influenced by all the unnecessary money that Apple users spend
> on their devices:
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2013/11/15/android-dominates-market-share-but-apple-makes-all-the-money/
>
>  No argument from me that Apple devices tend to be more elegant, and also
> tend to instill more brand loyalty than other makes. That's fine. The rest
> of the world treats such devices as practical commodity items. Open
> standards enable consumers to easily do comparison shopping and to jump
> ship to other brands in an open market. Apple will continue to resist any
> open standards that make comparison shopping and brand jumping easy for
> their market segment.
>
> The W3C community should not lose sleep over the continued efforts by
> Apple to loudly distinguish itself from the open standards movement.
>
>
> There's (AFAICT) no indication that any of the platform vendors or payment
> networks actively support an open standards movement for payments.
> VISA, MasterCard, PayPal and Alibaba are not even W3C members.  They did
> however all joined the closed FIDO alliance.
>
> The Google Wallet is still not open source so it seems that payments
> indeed is a pretty "religious" issue.
>
> From my watchtower things look pretty bad.
>

Anders, this isnt how open standards work.

Web payments is not in competition with Apple, or google wallet, or any
other payment system, for that matter.

In just the same way that linux is not in competition with NVIDIA, western
digital or Sony.

What happens is that you create an open and universal core that works on
its own merits.  Then you can hook in other systems (think linux drivers)
to become compatible.  Some systems will be trivial to write drivers for,
and some will take some ingenuity.  No secret there.  The firms that on
this will probably do very well for themselves.

What is being done here is to create a universal interoperable standard
close to the openness of the web (we hope!).  I'm defining universal to
mean the property that it is interoperable with any other universal
system.  None exist as of today, but if another comes along and passes the
TOII (Test of Independent Invention) we automatically increase traction.

Other payment processors will be hooked in based on how much manpower is
available.

The W3C creating yet another payment system is not viable, and not worth
spending time on.  The W3C creating a universal payment system aligned to
the web IS worth doing, and there's some track record here...

We are about co operation, not competition ...


>
> Anders
>
>
>
>  Joseph
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Anders Rundgren <
> anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-10-17 23:10, Manu Sporny wrote:
>>
>>> We have a presentation[1] to the Web Payments Interest Group at W3C TPAC
>>> at 11am on Monday, October 27th 2014. The goal is to introduce the new
>>> IG members to the work we've been doing over the past 4+ years in the
>>> Web Payments CG. We have 60 minutes allocated, with 20 minutes of
>>> presentation and 40 minutes of discussion.
>>>
>>> Please review the slides and let us know if there is anything that is in
>>> there that shouldn't be, or something that should be in there that isn't.
>>>
>>> https://web-payments.org/slides/2014/tpac-wpig-wpcg/
>>>
>>
>> It was a nice presentation.  Personally I'm worried that messages like the
>> one I got yesterday from a payment specialist will turn out to be true:
>>
>>  "Apple Pay is very good, both systematically and cryptographically.
>>   Additionally, they did their ecosystem homework, signing up MasterCard,
>>   Visa and Amex, and the five largest payment processors. I believe that
>>   they have in effect created the next generation of payment card.
>>   Because of the ecosystem involvement, Apple will be forced to allow
>>   this to be implemented by others so that this method becomes ubiquitous.
>>   If Apple Pay has any significant adoption in 2015, the method will
>> quickly
>>   be spread everywhere. It will be very hard for any architecturally
>> competing
>>   schemes to get any adoption. (Several of my friends in the payment
>> business
>>   here in XXXXX helped Apple design Apple Pay. There are many years of
>> payment
>>   experience embedded in its design.)"
>>
>> IMO, the W3C must carefully consider the value proposition of any future
>> work
>> so that it has a chance of getting traction.
>>
>> Challenging existing payment networks (and Apple) could be such an option
>> but wouldn't that be ignored/voted down by the major platform vendors?
>>
>> A web interface to Apple Pay could be another venue.  BTW, I think this
>> would
>> be trivial since the only thing you need (AFAICT...) is opening an opaque
>> channel
>> to the merchant web-server since the actual payment is dealt with in the
>> phone.
>>
>> Regarding the Web Payment CG and IG, I see no apparent relationship since
>> the
>> IG seems to focus on payment initiation [1] which exclude credentials,
>> signatures
>> etc. because these things belong to the specific payment system itself.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Anders
>>
>> 1] "While the Web Payments Interest Group is not chartered to develop new
>>     payment methods, it will create a framework to ensure that Web
>> applications
>>     can interface in a standard ways with all current and future payment
>> methods"
>>
>>
>>> -- manu
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Draft_F2F_Agenda_-_TPAC_2014_-_27/28_October_2014#Day_1_.28October_27.29
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Potvin
> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
> jpotvin@opman.ca
> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>
>
>