W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > January 2014

Re: Complementary Currencies and Intent Casting [former: Deprecation Warnings for currencies used in transaction?]

From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:48:32 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKcXiSrk2uo+UJ1pSnzWsp26wWsfQkRWr=F8dwxAJcVNNvz5Fg@mail.gmail.com>
To: ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>
Cc: David Nicol <davidnicol@gmail.com>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Arto Bendiken <arto@bendiken.net>
1. Choice of Currency

In my previous reply I used the phrase "medium of exchange", since buyer
and seller can agree on anything they wish. This would be feasible in the
choice of currency and choice of pricing indices model already discussed on
this list and at https://github.com/web-payments/web-payments.org/issues/9

2. Intent-Casting Plugin for WebPayments(?)

Do you agree it's best considered as a potential plug-in?  (Note, each of
the price index projects is also external to the WebPayments project.)

3. Plural Economy (PolyEconomy)

Big topic with a long history.
Happy to discuss outside this list (... maybe a sub-reddit?)

Joseph Potvin

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 8:03 AM, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ <
perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org> wrote:

> On 01/03/2014 01:02 PM, Joseph Potvin wrote:
>> RE: "I just would like to make possible for *each and every individual*
>> to clearly state *one's own personal intention*"
>> Ah. Okay, now I understand. So where WebPayments would enable vendors to
>> select one or more media of exchange they are willing to accept in
>> payment, and amongst those, WebPayments enables purchasers to choose
>> which media of exchange they wish to make payment in, you are suggesting
>> that both vendors and purchases ought to have a simple way to signal
>> that they will not (or prefer not to) be using that medium of exchange
>> in the future.
> Ok, I have impression that we dive into very interesting topic but
> possibly also loose focus on much simpler and easier to define use case I
> started with. (my subject: change tries to reflect it!)
> A year ago I've sent email over this list: "Listing with multiple
> Currencies and Authorities" and received helpful reply from Manu. -
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2012Dec/0021.html
> My email mentions http://polyeconomy.info where I tried to illustrate it
> in more visual way.
> Eventually I would like that in our online profiles related to Web
> Identity, WebID, Mozilla Persona whatever. We can publish our general
> preferences related to all kinds of currencies. At some point services
> could use such profile to filter out listings presented to us with
> currencies we state no interest in using and highlight listing with those
> currencies we state more interest in. But this setup seems to me much more
> out of scope for this group especially at this early stage...
>> If the relevance of any fiat medium of exchange is a combination of "got
>> some to give" (purchaser perspective) and "de facto brand loyalty"
>> (vendor perspective), then the information function you're suggesting to
>> include is for each to be able to provide advance notification of
>> changes to these statuses.
> I find it very useful that we can signal to each other our intentions of
> all kinds. Very likely we could collaborate on it with community around:
> http://projectvrm.net
> They use concept of *intent casting*: https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/
> projectvrm/Intentcasting
> Though I haven't noticed them tackling on environment with great diversity
> of currencies. I also got impression that on technology side they work more
> with XDI and less with RDF...
>> Hosting within WebPayments such a system for "votes of confidence" in
>> the various media of exchange would introduce may political charged
>> issues into the deployment, and anyways, how reliable would the
>> declarations be? This still seems to be something that could be
>> experimented with in a particular implementation, say with a "Currency
>> Market Sentiment Plugin" or something. It does not seem to enable direct
>> transaction use cases.
> I don't expect any special emphasis on that issue from specs developed
> within Web Payments community. I see it enough to just keep technology
> flexible / extensible enough for other initiatives to implement and
> emphasize such cases. I used this particular case simply because I have
> very direct need for it and clearly defined real world use cases.
>> Joseph Potvin
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 6:22 AM, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮
>> <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org <mailto:perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>>
>> wrote:
>>     On 01/03/2014 02:15 AM, David Nicol wrote:
>>         On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 1:19 PM, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮
>>         <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org
>>         <mailto:perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>
>>         <mailto:perpetual-tripper@__wwelves.org
>>         <mailto:perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>>>
>>         wrote:
>>              On 01/02/2014 08:04 PM, Joseph Potvin wrote:
>>                  Elf, Request for disambiguation: Are you referring to
>>         currency
>>                  "depreciation" (relative valuation change) or currency
>>         "deprication"
>>                  (phasing out)?
>>              LOL ;-)
>>              I meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/____Deprecation
>>         <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Deprecation>
>>              <https://en.wikipedia.org/__wiki/Deprecation
>>         <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprecation>> (and added this
>> link as
>>              ref [1] in my original email)
>>              "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>>              Not to be confused with Depreciation.
>>              Deprecation is a status applied to a computer software
>> feature,
>>              characteristic, or practice indicating it should be avoided,
>>              typically because it is being superseded. The term is also
>>         sometimes
>>              used for a feature, design, or practice that is permitted
>>         but no
>>              longer recommended in other areas, such as hardware design or
>>              compliance to building codes."
>>         you mean something like "You are using the Canadian Dollar. The
>>         central
>>         BitCoin Committee has declared a phase-out date for Canadian
>>         Dollars of
>>         April first, 2017. Please make appropriate plans."
>>     I DEFINITELY don't mean any *central comities*. Once again I just
>>     would like to make possible for *each and every individual* to
>>     clearly state *one's own personal intention*!
>>     Lets use example of hypothetical person name Alice who could state
>>     in human terms and also make it to our best capacity `machine
>>     readable`: "I transfer to you `50USD` while planing `to stop using
>>     USD within next 6 months`, that means that after mentioned period of
>>     time you will have less possibilities to exchange USD for physical
>>     world assets (products and services). Please feel warned!"
>>     So *bottom up* approach NOT *top bottom*! I would like that spec and
>>     Web Payments group do NOT state particular opinion about any given
>>     currency just make it possible for people to express their eventual
>>     *intention of deprecating it* as well as any other notices/warnings
>>     if someone else here would like to suggest other examples.
>>     I use example of hypothetical person name Alice rather then myself
>>     since I already have quit using monetary currencies over 4 years
>>     ago. Still I also want to *require* such deprecation warnings issued
>>     if someone wants to use money to acquire any asset from 3rd party
>>     using monetary currencies (at least from ISO 4217 listing) with
>>     intention of making this asset available to me or some of various
>>     projects I work on. Especially those projects with clear aim of
>>     supporting development of various alternative currencies and making
>>     contribution to sooner obsolescence of ones listed in ISO 4217.
>>         --
>>         The one L lama, he's a priest
>>         The two L llama, he's a beast
>>         And I will bet my silk pyjama
>>         There isn't any three L lllama. -- Ogden Nash
>> --
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>> jpotvin@opman.ca <mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>> LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
Mobile: 819-593-5983
LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56
Received on Friday, 3 January 2014 13:49:20 UTC

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