Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted

Ripple Labs explains the Ripple network and XRP here:
https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf

-Arthur


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Brent Shambaugh
<brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>wrote:

> Joseph,
>
> Thanks for your clarification. I believe I was in error, and what you say
> gives a bit more clarity. It appears to be a complicated subject. I
> searched for virtual commodities and found them to be in context of an
> internet game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy). I found
> Bitcoins referred to as virtual tokens here: (
> http://www.bellenews.com/2014/01/06/science-tech/how-bitcoin-works/).
>
> -Brent
>
> -Brent
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>
>> RE: Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
>> "virtual currencies"
>>
>> I like to clarify. Their status as currencies is in the eyes of the
>> (be)holders. Government analysts in both China and Finland (at least,
>> perhaps others more recently) have determined that these are virtual
>> commodities, and expressly NOT virtual currencies. This distinction is
>> important because very different laws come into play.
>>
>> The term I prefer is: Bitcoin and XRP are "virtual tokens" (...although
>> the hype sometimes makes them seem more like "virtual totems").
>>
>> Joseph Potvin
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brent Shambaugh <
>> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is what I am gathering:
>>>
>>> In the original Ripple, Money was an IOU. (1)
>>>
>>> When currency unit XRP was introduced, it prevented transaction and
>>> ledger spam and acted as a bridge currency. (2)
>>>
>>> If I can recall correctly, XRP was an attempted to solve problems with
>>> the former. Supposedly these problems are those mentioned for (2).
>>>
>>> Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
>>> "virtual currencies"
>>>
>>> I would be interested to know more about the free riders. Were they
>>> people in the network who were untrustworthy to transfer IOUs? Were they a
>>> reason for the creation of XRP?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brent
>>>
>>> (1) Ryan Fugger, Money as IOUs in Social Trust Networks & A Proposal for
>>> a Decentralized Currency Protocol, April 18th, 2004,
>>> http://archive.ripple-project.org/decentralizedcurrency.pdf
>>> (2) Ripple credits, Ripple Wiki, https://ripple.com/wiki/XRP
>>> (3)      Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering,
>>> Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies,
>>> http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If anyone has questions about how Ripple works or what it brings to web
>>>> payments, I'd be more than happy to try to take a stab at answering them.
>>>>
>>>> The distinction between Ripple the network and Ripple the currency is
>>>> often quite confusing so I think it's most helpful to call the network
>>>> Ripple and the currency just XRP.
>>>>
>>>> Evan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Reutzel, Bailey <
>>>> bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The first iteration of Ripple was conceived by Ryan Fugger in 2004
>>>>> yes, but that was littered with free riders that never fulfilled their
>>>>> orders. So he started working on a way to mitigate this.
>>>>> But in my opinion Chris Larsen, a serial financial services disruptor
>>>>> whose company now controls Ripple, began to build it out and push it to the
>>>>> mainstream because he saw the attention Bitcoin was receiving. I think
>>>>> Larsen pushed this as a cryptocurrency to catch attention, because the
>>>>> platform itself is not really about cryptocurrency at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I should have explained further.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jeffrey Cliff [mailto:jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 12:53 PM
>>>>> To: Reutzel, Bailey
>>>>> Cc: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin; Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>> Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>>
>>>>> > Basically Ripple was created a math-based currency to try and catch
>>>>> > some of the hype.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not true.  Ripple predates bitcoin, and the hype that followed.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/02/2014, Reutzel, Bailey <bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>>>> > .. XRP is used as a way to eliminate fraud on the network.
>>>>> > Basically consumers using the Ripple platform must send a transaction
>>>>> > fee in XRP when they make a payment, even if they're sending U.S.
>>>>> > dollars to someone that only accepts Euros. Ripple finds that
>>>>> > intermediary to send the payment through... so a node that accepts US
>>>>> > dollars and will send the end party Euros.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > From: Reutzel, Bailey [mailto:bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com]
>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:48 AM
>>>>> > To: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin
>>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>> > Subject: RE: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes they call the currency Ripple or XRP.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > From: Brent Shambaugh [mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com]
>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:46 AM
>>>>> > To: Joseph Potvin
>>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>> > Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is Ripple really a currency? I thought XRP was.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://ripple.com/currency/
>>>>> > I just performed a Google search. Perhaps some clarification here?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Joseph Potvin
>>>>> > <jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>> wrote:
>>>>> > Just noticed... the phrase "open, patent and royalty-free standard"
>>>>> > snuck back in. It should be "through open methods, unencumbered by
>>>>> > patents or royalties"
>>>>> > (this phrasing allows for defensive patents)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > joseph
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Manu Sporny
>>>>> > <msporny@digitalbazaar.com<mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>> wrote:
>>>>> > The Web Payments Workshop position paper has been submitted. The copy
>>>>> > that was submitted is attached. A rough HTML version of the document
>>>>> > is available here:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://web-payments.org/papers/2014/WebPaymentsWorkshopPositionPaper/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If there are errors or omissions, we have a week to correct them.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -- manu
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>> > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>> > blog: The Worlds First Web Payments Workshop
>>>>> > http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Joseph Potvin
>>>>> > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company |
>>>>> > La compagnie Opman
>>>>> > http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>>>>> > jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>
>>>>> > Mobile: 819-593-5983<tel:819-593-5983> LinkedIn (Google short URL):
>>>>> > http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>>> > confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on
>>>>> any forum and add 1 to the generation
>>>>>
>>>>> "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>>> confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Evan Schwartz
>>>> Developer + Technology Pioneer
>>>> Ripple Labs Inc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>
>> LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>
>
>