Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted

Joseph,

Thanks for your clarification. I believe I was in error, and what you say
gives a bit more clarity. It appears to be a complicated subject. I
searched for virtual commodities and found them to be in context of an
internet game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy). I found
Bitcoins referred to as virtual tokens here: (
http://www.bellenews.com/2014/01/06/science-tech/how-bitcoin-works/).

-Brent

-Brent


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:

> RE: Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
> "virtual currencies"
>
> I like to clarify. Their status as currencies is in the eyes of the
> (be)holders. Government analysts in both China and Finland (at least,
> perhaps others more recently) have determined that these are virtual
> commodities, and expressly NOT virtual currencies. This distinction is
> important because very different laws come into play.
>
> The term I prefer is: Bitcoin and XRP are "virtual tokens" (...although
> the hype sometimes makes them seem more like "virtual totems").
>
> Joseph Potvin
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brent Shambaugh <
> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here is what I am gathering:
>>
>> In the original Ripple, Money was an IOU. (1)
>>
>> When currency unit XRP was introduced, it prevented transaction and
>> ledger spam and acted as a bridge currency. (2)
>>
>> If I can recall correctly, XRP was an attempted to solve problems with
>> the former. Supposedly these problems are those mentioned for (2).
>>
>> Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
>> "virtual currencies"
>>
>> I would be interested to know more about the free riders. Were they
>> people in the network who were untrustworthy to transfer IOUs? Were they a
>> reason for the creation of XRP?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> (1) Ryan Fugger, Money as IOUs in Social Trust Networks & A Proposal for
>> a Decentralized Currency Protocol, April 18th, 2004,
>> http://archive.ripple-project.org/decentralizedcurrency.pdf
>> (2) Ripple credits, Ripple Wiki, https://ripple.com/wiki/XRP
>> (3)      Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering,
>> Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies,
>> http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If anyone has questions about how Ripple works or what it brings to web
>>> payments, I'd be more than happy to try to take a stab at answering them.
>>>
>>> The distinction between Ripple the network and Ripple the currency is
>>> often quite confusing so I think it's most helpful to call the network
>>> Ripple and the currency just XRP.
>>>
>>> Evan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Reutzel, Bailey <
>>> bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The first iteration of Ripple was conceived by Ryan Fugger in 2004 yes,
>>>> but that was littered with free riders that never fulfilled their orders.
>>>> So he started working on a way to mitigate this.
>>>> But in my opinion Chris Larsen, a serial financial services disruptor
>>>> whose company now controls Ripple, began to build it out and push it to the
>>>> mainstream because he saw the attention Bitcoin was receiving. I think
>>>> Larsen pushed this as a cryptocurrency to catch attention, because the
>>>> platform itself is not really about cryptocurrency at all.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I should have explained further.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jeffrey Cliff [mailto:jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 12:53 PM
>>>> To: Reutzel, Bailey
>>>> Cc: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin; Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>> Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>
>>>> > Basically Ripple was created a math-based currency to try and catch
>>>> > some of the hype.
>>>>
>>>> Not true.  Ripple predates bitcoin, and the hype that followed.
>>>>
>>>> On 04/02/2014, Reutzel, Bailey <bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>>> > .. XRP is used as a way to eliminate fraud on the network.
>>>> > Basically consumers using the Ripple platform must send a transaction
>>>> > fee in XRP when they make a payment, even if they're sending U.S.
>>>> > dollars to someone that only accepts Euros. Ripple finds that
>>>> > intermediary to send the payment through... so a node that accepts US
>>>> > dollars and will send the end party Euros.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > From: Reutzel, Bailey [mailto:bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com]
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:48 AM
>>>> > To: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin
>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>> > Subject: RE: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes they call the currency Ripple or XRP.
>>>> >
>>>> > From: Brent Shambaugh [mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com]
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:46 AM
>>>> > To: Joseph Potvin
>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>> > Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>> >
>>>> > Is Ripple really a currency? I thought XRP was.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://ripple.com/currency/
>>>> > I just performed a Google search. Perhaps some clarification here?
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Joseph Potvin
>>>> > <jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>> wrote:
>>>> > Just noticed... the phrase "open, patent and royalty-free standard"
>>>> > snuck back in. It should be "through open methods, unencumbered by
>>>> > patents or royalties"
>>>> > (this phrasing allows for defensive patents)
>>>> >
>>>> > joseph
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Manu Sporny
>>>> > <msporny@digitalbazaar.com<mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>> wrote:
>>>> > The Web Payments Workshop position paper has been submitted. The copy
>>>> > that was submitted is attached. A rough HTML version of the document
>>>> > is available here:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> https://web-payments.org/papers/2014/WebPaymentsWorkshopPositionPaper/
>>>> >
>>>> > If there are errors or omissions, we have a week to correct them.
>>>> >
>>>> > -- manu
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>> > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>> > blog: The Worlds First Web Payments Workshop
>>>> > http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Joseph Potvin
>>>> > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company |
>>>> > La compagnie Opman
>>>> > http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>>>> > jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>
>>>> > Mobile: 819-593-5983<tel:819-593-5983> LinkedIn (Google short URL):
>>>> > http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>> > confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on
>>>> any forum and add 1 to the generation
>>>>
>>>> "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>> confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Evan Schwartz
>>> Developer + Technology Pioneer
>>> Ripple Labs Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Potvin
> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
> http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
> jpotvin@opman.ca
> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>
> LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>