Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted

Thanks Arthur! This looks like a very good find!


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Arthur Britto <ahbritto@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ripple Labs explains the Ripple network and XRP here:
> https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf
>
> -Arthur
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Joseph,
>>
>> Thanks for your clarification. I believe I was in error, and what you say
>> gives a bit more clarity. It appears to be a complicated subject. I
>> searched for virtual commodities and found them to be in context of an
>> internet game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy). I found
>> Bitcoins referred to as virtual tokens here: (
>> http://www.bellenews.com/2014/01/06/science-tech/how-bitcoin-works/).
>>
>> -Brent
>>
>> -Brent
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> RE: Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP
>>> are "virtual currencies"
>>>
>>> I like to clarify. Their status as currencies is in the eyes of the
>>> (be)holders. Government analysts in both China and Finland (at least,
>>> perhaps others more recently) have determined that these are virtual
>>> commodities, and expressly NOT virtual currencies. This distinction is
>>> important because very different laws come into play.
>>>
>>> The term I prefer is: Bitcoin and XRP are "virtual tokens" (...although
>>> the hype sometimes makes them seem more like "virtual totems").
>>>
>>> Joseph Potvin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brent Shambaugh <
>>> brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is what I am gathering:
>>>>
>>>> In the original Ripple, Money was an IOU. (1)
>>>>
>>>> When currency unit XRP was introduced, it prevented transaction and
>>>> ledger spam and acted as a bridge currency. (2)
>>>>
>>>> If I can recall correctly, XRP was an attempted to solve problems with
>>>> the former. Supposedly these problems are those mentioned for (2).
>>>>
>>>> Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
>>>> "virtual currencies"
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to know more about the free riders. Were they
>>>> people in the network who were untrustworthy to transfer IOUs? Were they a
>>>> reason for the creation of XRP?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
>>>> (1) Ryan Fugger, Money as IOUs in Social Trust Networks & A Proposal
>>>> for a Decentralized Currency Protocol, April 18th, 2004,
>>>> http://archive.ripple-project.org/decentralizedcurrency.pdf
>>>> (2) Ripple credits, Ripple Wiki, https://ripple.com/wiki/XRP
>>>> (3)      Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering,
>>>> Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies,
>>>> http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has questions about how Ripple works or what it brings to
>>>>> web payments, I'd be more than happy to try to take a stab at answering
>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The distinction between Ripple the network and Ripple the currency is
>>>>> often quite confusing so I think it's most helpful to call the network
>>>>> Ripple and the currency just XRP.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Reutzel, Bailey <
>>>>> bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The first iteration of Ripple was conceived by Ryan Fugger in 2004
>>>>>> yes, but that was littered with free riders that never fulfilled their
>>>>>> orders. So he started working on a way to mitigate this.
>>>>>> But in my opinion Chris Larsen, a serial financial services disruptor
>>>>>> whose company now controls Ripple, began to build it out and push it to the
>>>>>> mainstream because he saw the attention Bitcoin was receiving. I think
>>>>>> Larsen pushed this as a cryptocurrency to catch attention, because the
>>>>>> platform itself is not really about cryptocurrency at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry I should have explained further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jeffrey Cliff [mailto:jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 12:53 PM
>>>>>> To: Reutzel, Bailey
>>>>>> Cc: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin; Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Basically Ripple was created a math-based currency to try and catch
>>>>>> > some of the hype.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not true.  Ripple predates bitcoin, and the hype that followed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/02/2014, Reutzel, Bailey <bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > .. XRP is used as a way to eliminate fraud on the network.
>>>>>> > Basically consumers using the Ripple platform must send a
>>>>>> transaction
>>>>>> > fee in XRP when they make a payment, even if they're sending U.S.
>>>>>> > dollars to someone that only accepts Euros. Ripple finds that
>>>>>> > intermediary to send the payment through... so a node that accepts
>>>>>> US
>>>>>> > dollars and will send the end party Euros.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > From: Reutzel, Bailey [mailto:bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com]
>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:48 AM
>>>>>> > To: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin
>>>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>>> > Subject: RE: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Yes they call the currency Ripple or XRP.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > From: Brent Shambaugh [mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com]
>>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:46 AM
>>>>>> > To: Joseph Potvin
>>>>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>>>>> > Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Is Ripple really a currency? I thought XRP was.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://ripple.com/currency/
>>>>>> > I just performed a Google search. Perhaps some clarification here?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Joseph Potvin
>>>>>> > <jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>> > Just noticed... the phrase "open, patent and royalty-free standard"
>>>>>> > snuck back in. It should be "through open methods, unencumbered by
>>>>>> > patents or royalties"
>>>>>> > (this phrasing allows for defensive patents)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > joseph
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Manu Sporny
>>>>>> > <msporny@digitalbazaar.com<mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > The Web Payments Workshop position paper has been submitted. The
>>>>>> copy
>>>>>> > that was submitted is attached. A rough HTML version of the document
>>>>>> > is available here:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> https://web-payments.org/papers/2014/WebPaymentsWorkshopPositionPaper/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > If there are errors or omissions, we have a week to correct them.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -- manu
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>>>>> > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>>>> > blog: The Worlds First Web Payments Workshop
>>>>>> > http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Joseph Potvin
>>>>>> > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company |
>>>>>> > La compagnie Opman
>>>>>> > http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>>>>>> > jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>
>>>>>> > Mobile: 819-593-5983<tel:819-593-5983> LinkedIn (Google short URL):
>>>>>> > http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>>>> > confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on
>>>>>> any forum and add 1 to the generation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>>>>> confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Evan Schwartz
>>>>> Developer + Technology Pioneer
>>>>> Ripple Labs Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joseph Potvin
>>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>>> http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>>
>>> LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>>
>>
>>
>