W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > August 2014

Re: progressing VisualArtwork

From: Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:41:51 -0500
Message-ID: <CAChbWaNP1-+CQsq67cGDxNGcSS_pPe_kobZT5Kph_yR8r0vrjA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Cc: W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>, Paul Watson <lazarus@lazaruscorporation.co.uk>
My opinion is that many things are "Collectable" as artwork, i.e., "they
are appreciated as having artistic value to the owner/seller."

Comics certainly can be collected for their artistic value for the
owner/collector as well, and presented as artwork, rather than as reading
material.

I think it would be wrong to state that "Comics ARE a class of
VisualArtwork" because that is a temporal statement,
but rather I would like to see "Comics HAVE properties of VisualArtwork and
CollectableItem".

In other words, I would discourage recommending to multi-type a ComicIssue
as both a VisualArtwork AND a PeriodicalSeries at the same time.

I know, I know... the old adage "What is Art?"

What I would rather see is a New Type be introduced to handle
"CollectableItem" 's in general that would handle all sorts of collectable
things....not just Artwork or Comics, but Barbie Dolls, Lego Sets,
Numismatics, Jay Leno's Automobiles, etc. and that would be the tie-in for
the e-commerce perspective...a CollectableItem being part of a
CollectionCategory as well as having a Collector, etc, etc.



On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:41 AM, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:

> On 19 August 2014 00:08, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> wrote:
> > As Paul Watson patiently points out, we're nearly done with the
> > "culture bundle" sketched back in April,
> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Apr/0051.html
> >
> > http://schema.org/workPerformed and with
> > http://schema.org/docs/releases.html#v1.9 periodicals and workExample
> > are now merged into the main site. Improving the description of visual
> > works is the last piece of the puzzle.
> >
> > So, yes, let's try to wrap this up for VisualArtwork.
>
> aka https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/VisualArtwork - I've updated it
> to point to this thread.
>
> earlier discussion of open issues,
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013May/0092.html
>
> >  I've just updated the old RDFS config, moving it from W3C Mercurial
> > into a github branch,
> > https://github.com/danbri/schemaorg/tree/sdo-visualwork
> >
> https://github.com/danbri/schemaorg/blob/sdo-visualwork/data/schema.rdfa#L10199
> >
> > I've copied the three RDFa examples in from wiki:
> >
> https://github.com/danbri/schemaorg/blob/sdo-visualwork/data/sdo-visualartwork-examples.txt
> >
> > ... and updated the (now AppEngine-based) test site:
> > http://sdo-culture-bundle.appspot.com/VisualArtwork
> >
> > This test build looks good so far. Here's what I see as obviously
> outstanding:
> >
> > 1. conversion of the examples to RDFa and Microdata, and fabrication of a
> > "pre markup" simple HTML version.
>
> Sorry, I meant to write JSON-LD - we already have RDFa examples. I plead
> jetlag!
>
> > 2. artEdition
> >
> > Looking at the RDFS from last time I see I didn't create an artEdition
> > property, in hope we could generalise it.
> >
> > Here's the definition from the Wiki,
> >
> > "The number of copies when multiple copies of a piece of artwork are
> > produced - e.g. for a limited edition of 20 prints, 'artEdition'
> > refers to the total number of copies (in this example "20")."
> >
> > And the example (which assumes the property exists),
> >
> > "<span property="artform">Print</span> from <time
> > property="dateCreated" datetime="1962">1962</time> by Pablo Picasso.
> > Numbered from the edition of <span property="artEdition">50</span>,
> > each signed by the artist in pencil, lower right: Picasso.</p>"
> >
> > To what extent is this concept art-specific? Are similar counts used
> > for other kinds of CreativeWork?
>
> When we last discussed this, Paul suggested: "To avoid confusion with
> the edition of a book, journal, etc we could change the property name
> for the VisualArtwork type to editionSize to match the CDWA term?"
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013May/0092.html
> ... that looks like a good idea to me. Any thoughts from
> bibliographiticians?
>
> 3. What does this mean for the existing Photograph type? "So my
> proposal is for the 'VisualArtwork' Type to be used instead of
> "Painting" or "Sculpture", and instead of "Photograph"" --- how do we
> express this on the site? Should we make the new properties available
> on Photograph too?
>
> 4. Comics, another long-in-progress area. Many aspects of describing
> comics are addressed by periodicals. But comics are also quite
> naturally visual artworks. See recent comics-as-periodicals thread,
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Aug/0169.html
>
> Specifically would it make sense for a single thing to be considered
> simultaneously a ComicIssue per
>
> http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Periodicals_and_Comics_synthesis
> draft, and yet also a VisualArtwork? Here's an example from the comic
> discussion in periodicals wiki:
>
>  <div vocab="http://schema.org/" typeof="ComicSeries"><span
> property="name">TRUE BLOOD</span>
>    <div property="about">TRUE BLOOD chronicles the backwoods Louisiana
> town of Bon Temps... in a world where vampires have emerged from the
> coffin and no longer need humans for their fix.</div>
>    <div property="publisher" typeof="Organization">Publisher: <span
> property="name">IDW</span> (<a property="url"
> href="http://www.idwpublishing.com">http://www.idwpublishing.com
> </a>)</div>
>    <ul>
>      <li property="hasPart" typeof="ComicIssue">Issue <span
> property="issueNumber">13</span>
>        <div property="author" typeof="Person">Author: <span
> property="name">Michael McMillian</span></div>
>        <div property="artist" typeof="Person">Art by: <span
> property="name">Beni Lobel</span></div>
>        <div property="colorist" typeof="Person">Colors by: <span
> property="name">Esther Sanz</span></div>
>        <div property="coverArtist" typeof="Person">Cover by: <span
> property="name">Michael Gaydos</span></div>
>        <div property="letterer" typeof="Person">Letters by: <span
> property="name">Neil Uyetake</span></div>
>        <div property="editor" typeof="Person">Edits by: <span
> property="name">Beni Lobel</span></div>
>        <div>Date published: <meta property="datePublished"
> content="2013-05">May 2013</div>
>        <div property="hasPart" typeof="ComicStory">
>          <span property="description">Jason discovers the reason for
>            Amy's sudden ability to go out in the daylight, but does
>            his best not to think about it.
>          </span>
>        </div>
>      </li>
>    </ul>
>  </div>
>
> Could this ComicIssue (issue 13) usefully have VisualArtwork properties?
>
> While we're at it, how would it look from an e-commerce perspective?
> http://store.hbo.com/true-blood-comic-issue-13/detail.php?p=444005
> --- not entirely hypothetical, since that page has schema.org markup,
> see
> http://any23.org/any23/?format=ntriples&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.hbo.com%2Ftrue-blood-comic-issue-13%2Fdetail.php%3Fp%3D444005&validation-mode=none
>
>
> I've a feeling we discussed this before but I couldn't find it in the
> mailing list archive: do we consider the entire issue an artwork, or
> just each page? I think we'd want to allow both levels of detail, and
> we have everything that's needed for doing so. We now have isPartOf /
> hasPart to use when multiple creative work entities also compose a
> whole. And in the VisualArtwork design we can also indicate component
> materials, e.g.
> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/VisualArtwork#Multiple_materials
> describes the materials that make up Tracy Emin's
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Bed
>
> Dan
>
>


-- 
-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://www.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
Thad on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/>
Received on Tuesday, 19 August 2014 17:42:25 UTC

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