- From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
- Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 10:13:43 +0200
- To: "Wallis,Richard" <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org>
- Cc: Matthias Tylkowski <matthias@binarypark.org>, "public-vocabs@w3.org" <public-vocabs@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAK4ZFVHTqVzLY_hB5hSOpQtJJwgEwUrgoCuqE-17Pp_o34=0RA@mail.gmail.com>
Hi all This is a very complex issue. FWIW some years ago Mondeca has worked in a project [1] involving representation and extraction of temporal information from Web pages, and singularly opening periods. You have to deal with the great variety of cases, the incompleteness of information (if you say you are closed on Monday, does that imply you're open on Sunday), the fact that information can be expressed both in positive and negative way (open or closed) etc. This work made the subject of a thesis, in French [2]. A short introducing paper is available in English [3]. My suggestion for schema.org would be to keep the expressivity as simple as possible to cover the 80% of simple cases without ambiguity. I remember meetings in this project where the few present human beings, reasonably well educated in their common native language (French), were enable to agree on the formal interpretation of some opening information provided in this same language. If the necessary expressivity to cover all cases is included in schema.org it will be very difficult for users to understand and implement correctly, let alone for search engines and other parsers to interpret it correctly. Adding something like "closingDay" might be useful to cover the most frequent negative expression. Best regards [1] http://www.projet-eiffel.org/ [2] http://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-00530785/ [3] http://www.lrec-conf.org/proceedings/lrec2008/pdf/44_paper.pdf 2013/5/28 Wallis,Richard <Richard.Wallis@oclc.org> > Hi all, > > I discussed the issue of Opening Hours with a colleague of mine and I > thought you may be interested in her comment: > > So my biggest complaint about OpeningHours is that you cannot say > you’re closed. At least not in a simple way. The only way to say you’re > closed is by using validity dates. Once you use validity dates then your > hours are always in the context of specific dates. So you have to keep > republishing information and Google etc has to keep harvesting new > information in order to know when you’re actually open.**** > > > This seems like a problem which is definitely relevant in the context of > the wider web. Example - If I’m 24 Hour Fitness and I need to tell people > I’m open every day all day except Christmas and New Years, there is no > simple way to do this.**** > > > Have others experienced similar difficulties describing normal opening > hours, except for specific periods when closed – such as holidays public or > otherwise. > > ~Richard. > > From: Matthias Tylkowski <matthias@binarypark.org> > Date: Tuesday, 28 May 2013 11:40 > To: "public-vocabs@w3.org" <public-vocabs@w3.org> > Subject: Re: webschema-ISSUE-22 (openingHours x2): Schema.org has two > ways to express opening hours [Feedback on Schema.org] > Resent-From: <public-vocabs@w3.org> > Resent-Date: Tuesday, 28 May 2013 11:41 > > Dear all, > Maybe the openingHours property in http://schema.org/LocalBusiness should > be removed. There are two reasons for that: > 1. The goal of Schema.org is to create a structured vocabulary, while the > value describing openingHours is not structured, it is a text content which > has to be parsed. > 2. The http://schema.org/Duration is an ISO8601 duration which is not a > time. > > The GoodRelations allows wide solutions to markup opening hours in a > structured manner. Here are some examples from > http://getschema.org/index.php?title=OpeningHoursSpecification: > > Example 1 > > The clinic of Dr. John Doe a physician<http://getschema.org/index.php?title=Physician&action=edit&redlink=1>in London is opened as below: > > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/Physician" itemscope> > <div itemprop="name">Dr. John Doe Clinic</div> > <div itemprop="openingHoursSpecification"> > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification" itemscope> > <div itemprop="dayOfWeek">Monday</div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="08:00:00"> > 08:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="12:00:00"> > 12:00 > </span> > </div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="15:00:00"> > 15:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="18:00:00"> > 18:00 > </span> > </div> > </div> > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification" itemscope> > <div itemprop="dayOfWeek">Thuesday</div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="08:00:00"> > 08:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="12:00:00"> > 12:00 > </span> > </div> > </div> > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification" <http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification> itemscope> > <div itemprop="dayOfWeek">Wednesday</div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="08:00:00"> > 08:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="12:00:00"> > 12:00 > </span> > </div> > </div> > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification" <http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification> itemscope> > <div itemprop="dayOfWeek">Thursday</div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="08:00:00"> > 08:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="12:00:00"> > 12:00 > </span> > </div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="15:00:00"> > 15:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="18:00:00"> > 18:00 > </span> > </div> > </div> > <div itemtype="http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification" <http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification> itemscope> > <div itemprop="dayOfWeek">Friday</div> > <div> > <span> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="08:00:00"> > 08:00 > </span> > <span>-</span> > <span> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="12:00:00"> > 12:00 > </span> > </div> > </div> > </div></div> > > > Example 2 > > The Roots restaurant<http://getschema.org/index.php?title=Restaurant#Examples>in San Francisco is opened daily from 11a.m. to 10p.m. > > <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Restaurant"> > <div itemprop="openingHoursSpecification"> > Open daily from 11a.m. to 10p.m. > <meta itemprop="dayOfWeek" content="Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday"/> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="19:00:00Z-08:00"/> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="06:00:00Z-08:00"/> > </div></div> > > or > > <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Restaurant"> > <div itemprop="openingHoursSpecification"> > Open daily from 11a.m. to 10p.m. > <meta itemprop="dayOfWeek" content="http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Monday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Tuesday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Wednesday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Thursday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Friday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Saturday http://schema.org/DayOfWeek/Sunday "/> > <meta itemprop="opens" content="19:00:00Z-08:00"/> > <meta itemprop="closes" content="06:00:00Z-08:00"/> > </div></div> > > Best regards > Matthias Tylkowski > CTO Binarypark > > > Am 28.05.2013 13:47, schrieb Web Schemas TF Issue Tracker: > > webschema-ISSUE-22 (openingHours x2): Schema.org has two ways to express opening hours [Feedback on Schema.org] > http://www.w3.org/2011/webschema/track/issues/22 > > Raised by: Dan Brickley > On product: Feedback on Schema.org > http://schema.org/CivicStructure has openingHours, whose value is said to be a Duration, > "The opening hours for a business. Opening hours can be specified as a weekly time range, starting with days, then times per day. Multiple days can be listed with commas ',' separating each day. Day or time ranges are specified using a hyphen '-'. > - Days are specified using the following two-letter combinations: Mo, Tu, We, Th, Fr, Sa, Su. > - Times are specified using 24:00 time. For example, 3pm is specified as 15:00. > - Here is an example: <time itemprop="openingHours" datetime="Tu,Th 16:00-20:00">Tuesdays and Thursdays 4-8pm</time>. > - If a business is open 7 days a week, then it can be specified as <time itemprop="openingHours" datetime="Mo-Su">Monday through Sunday, all day</time>." > > As part of the GoodRelations addition, there is also openingHoursSpecification which takes http://schema.org/OpeningHoursSpecification structures as a value. > > The differences should be explained, and perhaps converged. > > > > > > > > -- *Bernard Vatant * Vocabularies & Data Engineering Tel : + 33 (0)9 71 48 84 59 Skype : bernard.vatant Blog : the wheel and the hub <http://bvatant.blogspot.com> -------------------------------------------------------- *Mondeca** ** * 3 cité Nollez 75018 Paris, France www.mondeca.com Follow us on Twitter : @mondecanews <http://twitter.com/#%21/mondecanews> ---------------------------------------------------------- Mondeca is selected to present at ReInvent Law, London<http://reinventlawlondon.com/> on June 14th Mondeca will be supporting its client's presentation<http://semtechbizsf2013.semanticweb.com/sessionPop.cfm?confid=70&proposalid=5127> at SemTech in San Francisco <http://semtechbizsf2013.semanticweb.com/sessionPop.cfm?confid=70&proposalid=5127>
Received on Wednesday, 29 May 2013 08:14:38 UTC