Fwd: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-02-06

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
> Subject: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-02-06
> Date: February 8, 2023 at 3:48:32 PM EST
> To: public-credentials@w3.org
> Resent-From: public-credentials@w3.org
> 
> Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
> 
> The transcript for the call is now available here:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-02-06-vc-education/
> 
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-02-06-vc-education/audio.ogg
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-02-06
> 
> Agenda:
>  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Feb/0002.html
> Topics:
>  1. IP Note
>  2. Call Notes
>  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
>  4. Announcements & Reminders
>  5. VC-EDU Public Google Calendar
>  6. Open Agenda
>  7. Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine) - Open Badge publisher
>  8. Phil_L_(P1) - VC playground & Experience You
>  9. Manu_Sporny - ECDSA Cryptosuite
>  10. Sharon_Leu - Plugfest 3
>  11. Anthony_F._Camilleri - European Learning Model
> Organizer:
>  Kerri Lemoie
> Scribe:
>  Our Robot Overlords
> Present:
>  Kerri Lemoie, Kaliya Young, John Kuo, Sheri Myrick-ASU, David 
>  Baumgartner, Stuart Freeman, Simone Ravaoli, Sharon Leu, Rob 
>  Coyle, Phil L (P1), Jeff O - HumanOS, Xander / ASU Pocket, Nis 
>  Jespersen , Geun-Hyung, Tayken (LEF), Anthony Camilleri, Dmitri 
>  Zagidulin, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Eric Shepherd, Chris 
>  Webber, xander - ASU/Pocket, Manu Sporny, David Ward, Keith 
>  Kowal, Deb Everhart, Jeanne Kitchens, Credential Engine, Shiren, 
>  Phil Barker, Kayode Ezike, Sam Smith, Taylor (LEF), Nate Otto, 
>  Jim Kelly, James Chartrand, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Jim Goodell, 
>  Brooke Lipsitz, Brian, Jake, Susan Stroud, Bob Sopko, Marty Reed, 
>  PL, BRIAN
> 
> Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
> David_Baumgartner: Recording is on.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everybody Welcome to the verifiable 
>  credentials for Education task force Monday February 6th our 
>  agenda today that can open Agenda so we've asked the community to 
>  bring their topics and once we get to that part of the call will 
>  explain how you could add those topics to the queue.
> 
> Topic: IP Note
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  A few of the the boilerplate items first one is my 
>  P note at the w3c you must be a member to to contribute any 
>  substitute of work to the standards this isn't a standard called 
>  This is a community called but in case you are working on those 
>  standards in the agenda email that goes out and I'm the link in 
>  the chat you will see information on how to become a member.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Next call not recorded.
> 
> Topic: Call Notes
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  We have a robot transcriber and we are also 
>  recording the audio we do have some video that is taken although 
>  we haven't really explored that as much yet but it is happening 
>  so just be aware that all of these are recorded and it's so that 
>  you can follow up but also so that others who can't make the 
>  caulk and see what's going on and learn from our conversations.
> Kerri Lemoie:   On these calls.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Q system so we put Q Plus in the chat and left 
>  hand side of gypsies that q+ like I'm doing right now and that 
>  adds you to the queue you could remove yourself from the queue by 
>  hitting the cue - if you have a topic that you would like to talk 
>  about in you understand what that topic is you hit Q Plus and 
>  then type in your topic which you will see It'll come in handy as 
>  part of our open Agenda discussion.
> 
> Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Is there anybody new to the call today or anybody 
>  who's been for a while and here for a while would like to 
>  introduce themselves or reintroduce themselves so why don't you 
>  add yourself to the queue because.
> David_Baumgartner: So where do we find the Q holidays.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yep in the chat on the left hand side I've Just 
>  Seen just type Q Plus now we'll add you to the queue.
> David_Baumgartner: Very good thank you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Would you like to introduce yourself David.
> David_Baumgartner: Yes that David Bumgarner co-founder of 
>  software platform called smart Eddie wallet which is a digital 
>  credentials wallet for Learning and experience records lers that 
>  also captures learning sorry skills and competencies and helps 
>  people and employers map out a bridge between the skills the 
>  workforce has and the skills that they need for the jobs the 
>  employee.
> David_Baumgartner:  you will have to either today or next year 
>  let's say.
> David_Baumgartner: So delighted to join thank you Kerry.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you David.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Does anybody else would anybody else like to 
>  introduce themselves if that we can move on to announcements does 
>  anybody have any announcements anything they'd like to share with 
>  us before we get started on the main topic if so you could add 
>  yourself to the queue right now with the q+.
> 
> Topic: Announcements & Reminders
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Manu you have the floor.
> Manu Sporny:  I think scary couple of reminders the first one is 
>  the verifiable credentials working group meeting the face-to-face 
>  one is happening in Miami next week it is going to be Tuesday 
>  Wednesday Thursday if you want to attend in person it's probably 
>  a bit too late to ask but might not hurt if you still want to 
>  come you don't have to be a member of the group to attend but you 
>  do need permission from the chairs and.
> Manu Sporny:   That we don't have a ton of outside observers it.
> Manu Sporny:  Probably still with.
> Manu Sporny:  The realm of possibility get in otherwise you can 
>  request to attend remotely we will we should have remote tools 
>  and probably be like a zoom thing that you connect to those 
>  meetings will be happening all day Tuesday half day Wednesday and 
>  all day Thursday with and fairly packed agenda of things to go 
>  through that's announcement one the second announcement is that.
> <manu_sporny> EdDSA Data Integrity Cryptosuites Specification 
>  adopted: https://github.com/w3c/vc-di-eddsa
> Kerri Lemoie: :Clap:
> Manu Sporny:  With a huge thanks to this group the Edwards curve 
>  crypto sweet the Eds a Cryptid sweet was adopted last week by the 
>  verifiable credential working group I'll put a link in the chat 
>  Channel there that is the that is the crypto sweet that we used a 
>  lot of us used for the jff plugfest number two and my.
> Manu Sporny:   Station is will continue to use it.
> Manu Sporny:  FF plugfest 3 which we can talk about today that's 
>  it.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey thanks morning.
> <xander_-_asu/pocket> huzzah!
> Kerri Lemoie:  A clear you are you have the floor please.
> Kaliya Young:  Oh my goodness hi I just wanted to share again the 
>  APAC digital identity unconference inspired by IW happening in 
>  Bangkok Thailand March 1 March 1 is just an evening and it's two 
>  full days March 2nd and 3rd on Friday Thursday and Friday.
> Kaliya Young:  So if you are based in that region are listening 
>  later to this call or you have colleagues in your organization's 
>  or networked in that region it's a great opportunity to connect 
>  with the communities working on to decentralize it an Indian and 
>  regular identity systems as well we purposely made it broader 
>  than just these Technologies we got the head of engineering 
>  Formosa.
> Kaliya Young:  Yeah folks from all of many countries in Asia 
>  already signed up so it's great the I'm putting on an event 
>  called the thoughtful Biometrics Workshop which is now been 
>  condensed down to one day March 16th week making a space for 
>  academics and Industry folks and Civil Society folks to talk 
>  about those Technologies and their implications and then regular 
>  iaw is coming up April.
> Kaliya Young:  April 18th to 20th in Mount Mountain View 
>  California.
> Kerri Lemoie: IIW: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
> Kaliya Young:  Registrations open we're really committed to 
>  accessibilities of prices and issue please reach out to us and 
>  we'll make sure you can come and that's it thanks.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Kaliya.
> 
> Topic: VC-EDU Public Google Calendar
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see anybody else in the queue for 
>  announcements I have one big announcement as I said this out an 
>  email last week but maybe not everybody is on that list too can 
>  see this me if I we've created a public calendar.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You and me.
> Kerri Lemoie:  The which had for you.
> Kaliya Young: https://www.apacdigitalid.org/
> <kerri_lemoie> vc-edu public calendar: 
>  https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=public.vc.edu@gmail.com
> Kaliya Young: https://www.thoughtfulbiometrics.org/
> Kerri Lemoie:  What we did was we published the not the topics 
>  for who's hosting every week up until I think I got we got 
>  through Labor Day so you'll see if you look at this calendar who 
>  I miss hosting which weeks which we would like to host an open 
>  Agenda.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Holidays and.
> Kaliya Young: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
> Kerri Lemoie:  That type of stuff and and the way we hope this is 
>  useful is when you could use this calendar and add it to your so 
>  you have this call in your calendar which was most kind of hard 
>  to do before but also you could see who's hosting and if you have 
>  something you think you would like to present a topic that you're 
>  interested in and you think one of us would be the more 
>  appropriate host for that that topic you can reach out to us 
>  individually and so also know that like this isn't set in stone 
>  right these things could change.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Could be that weeks get canceled or you know our 
>  schedules.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Clash or we need to.
> Kerri Lemoie:  In two weeks or something but this is sort of a 
>  sort of like a guidepost for the cause for the coming week.
> 
> Topic: Open Agenda
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay if everyone is ready to buy don't get to our 
>  main topic unless anybody has anything else and of course just 
>  put yourself in the queue if you do do it this week we decided to 
>  an open Agenda please like to try and do this monthly if possible 
>  as co-chairs we could always bring topics that we are interested 
>  in but we know that a lot of you are busy and you're working on 
>  things and you're trying to understand what's going on and you 
>  have topics that you would like to bring maybe not present a 
>  whole call but maybe you just want to talk about.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Out something that's on your mind and you know or 
>  ask questions so today is the first time.
> Kerri Lemoie:  We're going to.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It is open Agenda and the way we'd like to do it 
>  is if you have a topic that you would like to bring up just type 
>  I'm going to put an example in the chap do a Q Plus and then the 
>  topic so say Q Plus and I'm going to put plugfest here but press 
>  3 because I know that's one because it came up in the email list 
>  and then we will have it in the queue and and what's great about 
>  that is if you do Q Plus and then the topic when we're doing the 
>  minutes later we'll be able to link this topics so.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Oh it's very helpful if you could do that.
> 
> Topic: Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine) - Open Badge publisher
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Deb Everhart from  credential engine I see you or 
>  in the queue.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You have the floor.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Thank you so I'm not sure if 
>  everyone on the call knows credential engine I'm not going to 
>  give a long intro but a couple of key points that are relevant to 
>  what we like to talk about today credential engine is a 
>  non-profit and we developed a credential transparency description 
>  language is an open schema and support the registry which is an 
>  online way of long-term storage for data that's in CTL.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  we do not.
> <jeanne_kitchens,_credential_engine> Jeanne_Kitchens:present+
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Products I want to be clear 
>  about that we're not a product company but we do have tools for 
>  converting data to see TBL and being able to publish it to the 
>  registry so that's context for the what we would like to show 
>  today which should take less than 10 minutes and it's our new 
>  batch publisher so the reason.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  in for this.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): This new capability is that as 
>  we know badges are very widely used our research shows that 
>  there's over 75 million badges that have been issued in the world 
>  and currently about 430,000 offered in the us alone and yet many 
>  of those badges are undervalued because people don't understand 
>  what they mean and so we advocate for using CT DL both within 
>  Badges and also.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  so being able to use the 
>  alignment Field in.
> <kerri_lemoie> If you put yourself in  response to this topic 
>  (Credential Engine, please add yourself as "q+ credential engine" 
>  so we can call on you as part of this topic.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): You linked to data that's in 
>  CTL that is linked data that contextualizes that badge in a lot 
>  of ways to skills Pathways other credentials and courses Etc and 
>  that's always been possible but we've just made a tool to make it 
>  a lot easier so if there are any questions about the context I'm 
>  happy to answer them and then Jean he's going to show us.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  the short demo.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Thank you Jeff and I just 
>  wanted to make sure my microphone connected.
> Kerri Lemoie:  We can hear you sounds good Jeanne.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Great okay good um I'll go 
>  ahead and then assuming I can do a screen share.
> <kerri_lemoie> chicken / Jeanne
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: I'm going to turn off my 
>  camera but hello everyone thank you I'm Jeanne kitchens Chief 
>  technology Services officer with credential engine and I'm going 
>  to do a demonstration as Deb said as our new credential registry 
>  badge publishing tool.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Hey I'm just want to verify 
>  my screen sharing.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: What you're seeing here is we 
>  have as Dimension we don't build products for end users but we 
>  build do build tools for converting information and to see DL 
>  link data structure to publish to the credential registry or on 
>  the web and this is our sandbox and there's a bunch of tools in 
>  here and I'm going to do the badge publisher application.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  so I've already logged in 
>  and this is all.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Balazs open source code or 
>  will be after our pilot which is going on now I've logged into 
>  her system and you can see here that currently the to badging 
>  platforms that we can directly pull down badges from our canvas 
>  credentials and credibly and there's an option to paste the Json 
>  format from any platform is going to focus on the canvas 
>  credentials and I also want to mention that credential engine we.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  deal with personally 
>  identifiable information.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: And we do.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Not issue badges so this is 
>  just bringing in the badge class hopefully I put my correct 
>  password in but I'm logging into canvas credentials and you'll 
>  notice up here if I was in Canada and I had I didn't you badges I 
>  could select for example the Canada platform but since I don't 
>  issue badges I selected a test platform here I'm going to load 
>  issuers and just so I can provide a little more context those of 
>  you who are.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  familiar with canvas badges.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: To be Badger this is my test 
>  account I've created three badges here I'm just going to click 
>  one of them real quick those of you who are familiar with badges 
>  would recognize the information you know that a user who creates 
>  Badges and issues that would include with their badges you know a 
>  name potentially an expiration date for the credential or the 
>  badge description of it earning criteria and alignments and you 
>  can see down here my alignments.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  are all.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: So I created three badges 
>  with competency alignments I'm going to return back excuse me to 
>  the tool here and you'll recognize I've selected my account I've 
>  logged into it and what it's done is it's imported the three 
>  badges from the canvas credentials into the credential registry 
>  publishing system I can see them here if I click view Source I'm 
>  seeing them in the canvas credentials.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  yes so I'm going to go 
>  ahead.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Just imported that data into 
>  the credential registry publishing system so now I can see my 
>  three badges I can click edit if I want to and if I needed to for 
>  some reason I could edit any of these properties that came in 
>  with that badge but notice what happened when I ended that import 
>  is it brought all those badge properties and as see gdl so we 
>  have the name or tool.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  and a CT ID which is.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: A unique Global identifier 
>  that is important when that gets published to the registry or to 
>  the web and description credential type I'm just going to click 
>  edit here as you can see you know just basically gives you the 
>  option to edit something I'm not going to actually edit it and I 
>  also want to point out I could change the badge type it's very 
>  common use case for a badge to be used a proxy for another type 
>  of credential and what you're seeing here are all the types of 
>  credentials.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  in the ctd L.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Need to actually change that 
>  the CDL also has a way to say if I did change it I could still 
>  say this is really a certificate but it also is a is verified as 
>  a badge so I could still have that description and then you see 
>  the other badge properties here and you see the competencies and 
>  so as you as all of you who are familiar with the open badge 
>  specification know that.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  alignments could be just 
>  about anything in my case these are.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is based on OB2 but we 
>  have implementation notes for OB3
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: And you'll see there's a 
>  toggle here to include them and I do want to include my 
>  competencies with the import so I'm not going to change anything 
>  I'm just going to click finish editing and move on to my next 
>  step and now basically I'm just going to save all three of these 
>  badges into the credential registry publishing system so now when 
>  I'm viewing this credential I'm seeing it in the credential 
>  registry publishing system I changed.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  nothing on my badging.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: That form nothing.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Been changed and I can see 
>  all the data I brought in including those competencies here as 
>  the ctd oh and then I can click approve and publish and I can 
>  publish it to the credential registry so I saved all three of 
>  them I can finish my publication and the last step in the process 
>  that I'm going to show you here is you could say of all 
>  alignments back to Canvas so I'll click that.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  that and you could.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: See here these if you if you 
>  know that open batch type you'll recognize these properties 
>  Target name URL description framework code and you can see that 
>  it is URL in this case is to the credential registry you know 
>  sandbox for the sandbox credential registry finder and production 
>  of course it wouldn't be the sandbox this is just a testing 
>  environment but the URL would be credential engine dot-org finder 
>  and that way it's saving back.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  back to my badges so I 
>  didn't edit any of.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Edge's not it wouldn't change 
>  anything on the badging platform but I did add my alignment back 
>  to the badge and here it is so now with the user follows that 
>  alignment once I publish it to the registry there seen the data 
>  in the registry this of course is a human-readable credential 
>  finder page that will see here once it loads but the raw data in 
>  the registry.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  if I were to.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Date in the registry I would 
>  see it's the ctd L badge and now in our publishing system the 
>  user can link into other credentials they could link this to 
>  transfer value and so forth let me just stop there and see if W 
>  want to add anything.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  stop my screen.
> Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Share unless there's anything 
>  anybody wants me to revisit.
> <phil_l_(p1)> Does this work with OBv2.1 and OBv3 badges?
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): That's great Genie there was 
>  thank you so much Jeannie I love this time huh there was a 
>  question in the chat about the OB version so because all the 
>  badges that are out there currently are to this is based on Two 
>  And we have implementation notes for 3 and is Cheney said before 
>  this is all open source so we encourage having it be integrated 
>  with multiple badge platforms.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you I did you put a link in the chat to on 
>  the back of the shirt.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Yeah what was put in the in the 
>  chat is a link to our comms kit which includes a video of the 
>  demo that Genie just did the badge publisher itself is Young 
>  pilot and should be available very soon.
> Kerri Lemoie:  That's great I'm get.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Actually very soon not like 
>  when a product company says happens I used to work for product.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay I'm glad you are in the queue again did you 
>  have something else or is this the same topic.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): No it's the same thing.
> <jeanne_kitchens,_credential_engine> We'll open up the GitHub 
>  repository following the pilot to ensure any enhancements or bugs 
>  are addressed.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Okay got it thanks.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You might have thank you - then that'll pull you 
>  from the queue thank you sure feels wrong you put yourself in the 
>  queue I believe score BC playground and also experience you 
>  project.
> <taylor_(lef)> Sorry, late anncmt… ETHDenver coming Feb 24 - Mar 
>  5 (15k+ expected w a ton of vc/edu content). 
>  https://www.ethdenver.com
> 
> Topic: Phil_L_(P1) - VC playground & Experience You
> 
> Phil_L_(P1): Right thank you we're just one of the things that's 
>  becoming clear to us as we're experienced we're developing the 
>  pilots associated with experience you which Colin has mentioned a 
>  couple of times in Prior meetings to this call which is an 
>  attempt to look at whether or not emerging AI models can 
>  facilitate the transformation of unstructured data to structured 
>  data such as a VC data model.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is a link to the 
>  communications kit for the Badge publisher-- please feel free to 
>  reuse these materials, and we'll keep this group posted on 
>  availability 
>  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xBl0W-nFOYxrgZJqbA4lZgRSCpOUzryGA7aA3ChpFD0/edit?usp=sharing
> Phil_L_(P1): Issue that has come up a number of times is the 
>  teams that are that are interested in this may very well know a 
>  lot about the AI world and there and the algorithms and such it 
>  may know less about the verifiable credential wrote world and 
>  we'd like to see if we can propose at least a discussion about 
>  extending the utility of the VC playground or potentially Deb's 
>  announcement suggest another way to view this which is connecting 
>  in some fashion these.
> <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> SpruceID putting on a did:day 
>  mini-summit at EthDenver as well: 
>  https://blog.spruceid.com/announcing-did-day-an-exploration-of-decentralized-identity-at-ethdenver-buidlweek/
> Phil_L_(P1): Have overlapping interest and an overlapping 
>  communities in the case of experience you project we're trying to 
>  collect a repository of hundreds if not thousands of things like 
>  PDFs of transcripts and other unstructured representations of 
>  awards that will be useful as input to a a tested AI.
> Phil_L_(P1): But if that was also aligned with the VC playground 
>  in some fashion because the target data models that were looking 
>  at but things get transferred into our VCS and so having that 
>  sort of come together in some fashion would seem to be a useful 
>  thing for the community if we could do it without undue burden to 
>  the case of the VC playground digital Bazaar which has been so 
>  generous it at making that available to the to the VC community 
>  and supporting a lot of the tools in it so.
> Phil_L_(P1):  that's the topic and whether we.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> we would be very happy to 
>  collaborate on this combination
> Phil_L_(P1): Now over the winter just put that as a placeholder 
>  to put into another meeting down the road is it that's up to you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Big Field one question I have for you when you say 
>  ABC program did you mean the chappie but I.
> Phil_L_(P1): The the choppy playground there's a whole bunch of 
>  things that that digital tools and digital Bazaar has put 
>  together in one place to be able to test the Integrity of the 
>  data models with you know the their Fidelity there for developers 
>  who are building these things to be able to to use and we'd like 
>  to see about about one expanding the visibility that to it to 
>  this.
> Phil_L_(P1):  new project that I just.
> Phil_L_(P1): Into but also we think that there is a wider 
>  opportunity for this to become visible to the increasing interest 
>  that is now emerging in the in the VC World both on the HR side 
>  of things the HR open and and skills based hiring communities 
>  that are interested in these pot and these spaces and potentially 
>  others.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I just sounds great amount of the I knew you're in 
>  a queue next but you have anything any thoughts.
> Manu Sporny:  Yes absolutely Phil Phil read my mind I was you 
>  know as Deb was you know kind of talking through credential 
>  engine and we were watching the demo I was trying to figure out 
>  like is there a way for us to hook up kind of what credential 
>  engines doing to the chappie playground or you know maybe.
> Manu Sporny:   A broader verified.
> Manu Sporny:  Potential playground that is definitely something 
>  that we are planning on spending some time this year doing which 
>  is basically trying to take us out of the critical path of 
>  creating these credentials and trying to make it much more open 
>  to the community we are planning on having like four years now we 
>  as in the community that VC Edge u,v the the credentials 
>  community group has has wanted this like.
> Manu Sporny:  Examples repo and I think we're just on the cusp of 
>  enabling that and that would be just a totally open in the 
>  beginning GitHub repository that all the different companies can 
>  kind of just dump content into like verifiable credential 
>  templates and I was wondering if there's a way for us to type 
>  pull from credential engine to get stuff into that into that 
>  playground so that I mean so effectively the types of credentials 
>  that we can issue starts.
> Manu Sporny:   Going you know exponential maybe not exponential 
>  but like you know ten.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> yes, we have example 
>  credentials for all types of ed and training credentials
> Manu Sporny:  Hundreds of different types of credentials that 
>  could be issued through the playground so that when one of us in 
>  the community needs to kind of show just an example a demo flow 
>  or just wants to see if our product you know is conformant with 
>  the stuff that's out there we'd be able to do it and we'd be able 
>  to kind of work on this thing as a community so I think the 
>  desire is absolutely there we are planning on you know trying to 
>  start using like the BC examples Repository.
> Manu Sporny:   We and credentials community group.
> Manu Sporny:  To pull content from there and of course you know 
>  the reason we kind of want to separate that repository out is is 
>  so that other people can create their own playgrounds like maybe 
>  there is a better one for like a playground specific for like 
>  education credentials or a playground specific for like 
>  government ID credentials or playground that's specific to supply 
>  chain right so that kind of we can.
> Manu Sporny:  Improve the amount of tooling that's available to 
>  the community to test test interoperability and kind of show demo 
>  so so yes absolutely like there's a huge desire to do that I 
>  think Jeff the plugfest to really pushed kind of our need to show 
>  that and I would imagine jff plugfest three is going to even 
>  further kind of push those capabilities so now it's a matter of 
>  kind of putting.
> Manu Sporny:   Like putting the pieces together like credential 
>  in.
> Manu Sporny:  And it's awesome and we want to figure out a way to 
>  pull that stuff into the playground so that we have the ability 
>  to issue a much broader set of credentials and very interested in 
>  collaborating on that I put myself on the queue for something 
>  totally different though but I can take a break and come back 
>  around to that later Carrie if.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's a York City Oklahoma.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thank you Manu, we're ready 
>  for this collaboration!
> <manu_sporny> Great to hear, Deb!
> <kerri_lemoie> After Anthony - let's pause on the topics and if 
>  there's time, we can add another. Thanks!
> <manu_sporny> Only limiting factor is engineering bandwidth at 
>  this point! :)
> Phil_L_(P1): Can I just yeah I just wanted to add that data model 
>  that we would like to include in the unstructured to structured 
>  data Pilots for the AI side of stuff includes the Lem from the EU 
>  Community I saw it and Anthony cammalleri is on the queue as well 
>  we would like to be able to extend the our connection to the work 
>  that.
> Phil_L_(P1):  that's the terrific work going on in the EU.
> Phil_L_(P1): In this concept of the playground as if possible and 
>  maybe perhaps you can come in on that as well thanks.
> Kerri Lemoie:  And actually before I make you feel it in my name 
>  Anthony are you in the queue to reply to this or do you have your 
>  topic for the call.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is a discussion draft 
>  that Phil Barker wrote for using CTDL in VCs/OBs 
>  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ei7uxTeLs_vQPtMpRPx4KVZ-nQ46ySUlXpF1nzhgJUM/edit#heading=h.i33feeiez3el
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay thank you I might a year in the key twice do 
>  you have two topics or just one.
> Manu Sporny:  Yes the next one is a little shorter and is a is a 
>  bit more down in the weeds but I'll try to cover it quickly so 
>  with lots of things to this community we were able to get the 
>  Edwards crypto sweet into the verifiable credentials working 
>  group and that's great the for those of you that are not familiar 
>  that Edward script or Suite is like a very modern.
> 
> Topic: Manu_Sporny - ECDSA Cryptosuite
> 
> Manu Sporny:  As bleeding edge as you can get and still get 
>  something into production with you know the community so this 
>  crypto sweet is in the newest draft of the nist standards for 
>  acceptable cryptography so the good news there is like we're 
>  ahead of the curve there in like we kind of Hit The Sweet Spot 
>  there right we got it right as nist said yes we're going to 
>  accept this but it's not built out.
> Manu Sporny:   Tin products yet.
> Manu Sporny:  Means that some of you that are trying to go into 
>  production with verifiable credentials in the next two years or 
>  going to have a hard time getting that deployed if for example 
>  your customer like a university or a state government or federal 
>  government requires you to do your cryptographic your 
>  cryptography in something called Hardware security module so this 
>  this is what these Hardware security modules look like they're 
>  companies like thales just how you pronounce this.
> Manu Sporny:   Is that sell Hardware into Data Centers.
> Manu Sporny:  Cryptography so they've got these big you know 
>  these computers 1u chassis they've got PCI cards they've got USB 
>  devices in these go through a very lengthy qualification process 
>  such that you know nation states or even universities depend on 
>  these to do their digital signatures now these things do not have 
>  EDSA built into them and they probably won't for another one to 
>  two years or so.
> Manu Sporny:  We'll need for ecdsa as well this is another type 
>  of elliptic curve this thing has been around for like 15 plus 
>  years right so this is what governments in universities use today 
>  and this is just a heads up that we are planning on standardizing 
>  this as well through the verifiable credentials working group but 
>  people seem people have really focused on the Next Generation 
>  cutting-edge stuff and not necessarily the boring like.
> Manu Sporny:   This is already deployed.
> Manu Sporny:  There's just this one that we're trying to get into 
>  verifiable credentials working group The Hope is we are going to 
>  try it in the next couple of months but we are going to need like 
>  Partners to like other vendors to implement it as well it's 
>  fairly easy to implement like it's already there and done and if 
>  you've done EDSA doing ecdsa is like very very minor 
>  modifications and changes but it's work that needs to be done so 
>  I'm just giving a heads up that.
> Manu Sporny:   You know we are looking.
> Manu Sporny:  Companies to go yes we have government customers or 
>  yes we have University customers or state governments where we 
>  know that this is a requirement and so we want to help you know 
>  push this standard through w3c as well so that's just a heads up 
>  if you're interested in helping with that please let me know 
>  that's it.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you buddy does anybody have any questions 
>  for money before we move on to the next topic.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay we can always Circle back if we have 
>  questions or mono we can always revisit this at a more dedicated 
>  call if we need to it sometime.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey Sharon you have before now.
> <sharon_leu> plugfest slides: 
>  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SuyKPLmb1KqLPEsfDnzaBtd1GpGjuHH9e04RoWDojC4/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> Topic: Sharon_Leu - Plugfest 3
> 
> Sharon Leu:  Great I am putting a slide deck I'm going to talk 
>  very very fast this is just for discussion purposes only and I 
>  will also try to share my screen screen sharing failed okay so 
>  I'm going to just talk and I'd the slides are in the chat 
>  essentially wanted to share a proposal so this is where we have 
>  talked a lot oh thank you about what it is that we could do next 
>  and.
> Sharon Leu:   Here's where we landed and.
> <david_baumgartner> @Manu: I'd be interested to help. Perhaps we 
>  can set up a call. David   david.baumgartner@e-duproof.com
> Sharon Leu:  Make sure to have a few like have share this hear 
>  your comments before we make this official so here's our approach 
>  that we are preparing and so just to review the next slide just 
>  shares our overall goal so like why does an organization like 
>  jobs for the future care about plugfest essentially our goal is 
>  to build a functional learning and employment record which means 
>  that individuals using these and Elly are through like you know 
>  all of the things in the stack including the wall.
> Sharon Leu:   It can store multiple credentials issued by 
>  multiple issuers.
> Sharon Leu:  Of control and choice over how they store and share 
>  their credentials and obviously that the credentials themselves 
>  demonstrate that we are able to then demonstrate some kind of 
>  utility to the credentials ecosystem like for example credentials 
>  are used for decision-making right so if you go to the next slide 
>  this is where I think we have made some really great progress our 
>  first plugfest we showed that there were many wallets actually 
>  that can display verifiable credentials and that the.
> Sharon Leu:   Giles themselves.
> Sharon Leu:  Student are sort of useful in being unpacked this 
>  most recent second plugfest we were able to demonstrate that 
>  actually open badges for multiple issuers could be issued to a 
>  wallet and that while it's could hold them and that issuers can 
>  issue to multiple wallet type so I think that we have made some 
>  really good progress towards the multiple issuers multiple 
>  credentials and so I think that as we were thinking about what 
>  the next step is if you look at slide 4 we heard a lot.
> Sharon Leu:   Lot of really great ideas and the hard thing for us 
>  to do is to think about what.
> Sharon Leu:  Right small step versus what was a giant leap right 
>  so some of the ideas that we had heard from you all and others 
>  was that presentation exchange verification by relying party 
>  while it to wallet semantic interoperability user experience were 
>  all really important and we agree that all of them were important 
>  but we needed to pick the right next one and so starting in slide 
>  5 you'll see what is our proposal for plugfest 3 so plugfest 3 we 
>  think is the right next small step.
> Sharon Leu:   Does in order to have the entire sort of 
>  presentation request use of the.
> Sharon Leu:  I'm integration with applicant tracking systems or 
>  student Information Systems all of that I think we need to First 
>  focus on presentation exchange workflow so our proposed technical 
>  exercise is a verifier request a set of credentials from the 
>  holder holder selects three and this is just a number I made up 
>  could be to write relevant credentials from the wallets the 
>  holder presents to the verifier in form of verifiable 
>  presentation and then the verifier is able to verify the 
>  authenticity.
> Sharon Leu:   City of the VP as well as the individual VCS so 
>  that's our general.
> <manu_sporny> Good, solid, realistic proposal!
> <pl> This is a great next step!
> Sharon Leu:  And and I guess we'll just run through these really 
>  fast so inside six it's just our I think what we wanted to 
>  control is the verifiable credentials were thinking that we would 
>  provide the set of credentials to be used that we might provide 
>  some sort of standardized issue a registry and that we would go 
>  with the two protocols that really stood out from plug has to and 
>  perhaps controversial e.d. emphasize unless they.
> Sharon Leu:   Really bring their game face game.
> Sharon Leu:  The like sort of did comforter call stuff that we 
>  think that we still need to discuss is like what does the 
>  verifier request to look like and is there a version of a 
>  playground that we can invest in as a resource for this community 
>  and then we think the timeline will still be about 3 to 4 months 
>  of work and so if you think that this is the technical activities 
>  are scoped to be like too hard so it would take something like 
>  five months or too easy like you could do it in a weekend.
> Sharon Leu:   That that is something that we would love feedback 
>  on as well.
> <pl> When  you say "verifier request" is the referencing the 
>  query from the verifier asking for the credential types they wish 
>  to see in the VP?
> Sharon Leu:  And then finally how we want to think about 
>  participation so again we want to emphasize the wallet 
>  functionality like users of the wallet can curate verifiable 
>  presentation and so we will focus on the presentation aspect so 
>  most of the work we anticipate will be for the wallet 
>  implementers we do want to start scoping verify or participation 
>  even though we were talking about the playground because we 
>  anticipate like the next small step after this being an 
>  integration with really verifiers so we want their feedback as.
> Sharon Leu:   Part of this process as well obviously develop some 
>  tools that I'm very.
> <simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> @PL Yes
> <pl> @Simone  - thanks
> Sharon Leu:  The future who do want to participate in this 
>  verifiable credentials ecosystem could easily Implement in their 
>  own context as well as a set of reference implementations that 
>  people can take a look at to what mountain was saying earlier 
>  like if we could pull some examples it might make it easier for 
>  people to adopt so I'm going to stop talking realize this is 
>  really fast and if anyone has any questions happy to engage 
>  either now or later if there are other topics that people want to 
>  discuss.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Picture a testimony answered a question for Phil 
>  but I thought we might just talk about it out loud anyway and he 
>  says when you say verify request is this referencing the query 
>  from the verifier asking for the credential types they wish to 
>  see in the VP and it is a credential types or is it certain 
>  credentials or Zach to be figured out.
> Sharon Leu:  I think that we were saying credential okay so the 
>  answer is yes and I think that the answer is that it's a type 
>  like it's both that it's a type of credential but because we're 
>  limiting the set of credentials it will be end up like 
>  functionally being this specific example.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see my name is are you in the queue for 
>  this topic but look I say okay go ahead.
> Manu Sporny:  Yes just to note we are adding verification to the 
>  playground as we speak we took a risk and thought maybe plugfest 
>  3 might have something to do with verification plus it's 
>  something that the ecosystem needs anyway so we are actively 
>  working on that right now meaning engineer's engaged writing code 
>  in testing right now I don't have an ETA on that yet but.
> Manu Sporny:   We're hoping where you know.
> Manu Sporny:  Away from being able to go live with that in the 
>  Hope was that we'd be able to set that up before plugfest three 
>  kicked off clearly like we have no idea if that is going to line 
>  up perfectly it's not going to line up perfectly like what you 
>  already know that but we're very willing to like adjust to make 
>  sure that it lines up and hopefully can be one of the tools 
>  that's used for verification during plugfest three the other 
>  thing that.
> Manu Sporny:   We're actively working on is building in oid C2.
> Manu Sporny:  Playground as well in an attempt to make it easier 
>  on everyone so we should be able to support both of these 
>  protocols through the playground and we should have verification 
>  in the playground but I can't give it a date yet because our 
>  engineering teams will probably kill me if I say the wrong date 
>  so it's on its way just as a heads up in the hopes that it helps 
>  us coordinate a bit better that's it.
> Sharon Leu:  I think that's wonderful and I wonder if like 
>  offline we can connect about what you think the estimated 
>  timeline is and whether it actually like how much of a mismatch 
>  it is.
> Manu Sporny:  Yep that sounds sounds good and happy to make it 
>  into a community discussion Community discussion as well so 
>  either way.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's great - thank you so long are you also thank 
>  you for podcaster.
> PL: I just well I just wanted to can you hear me okay first of 
>  all I think this is a terrific Next Step Sharon so this is really 
>  helpful you made a brief comment but I'm not sure I can connect 
>  it properly about the notion of this being part of the workflow 
>  in the context of job skills and and and the job submission 
>  workflow to an 80s system for example and in so I just wanted to 
>  ask if you would.
> PL:  make a further elaboration are you.
> PL: As something that an 80s system would use something like VC 
>  chappie as an API to to consume presentations and or the other 
>  side of it when the DCA when the 80s passes information about 
>  candidates that they've matched on to an HR is system a similar 
>  process using a VP to pass data through a VC chappy interface.
> <dmitri_zagidulin> (ATS = Applicant Tracking System, for HR)
> Sharon Leu:  I think it could be any of those Phil I think I said 
>  that quickly because it was as an example I think there are 
>  definitely a ton of verifier and relying party endpoints and I 
>  think that as like as we think about the next small step after 
>  this I want to think about I'm really understanding the 
>  requirements necessary to do any number of those and so I think 
>  this will give us information that will allow us to find out more 
>  information about how that integration would work whether with an 
>  hras system.
> Sharon Leu:   ATS system student information.
> Sharon Leu:  Any of the other kinds of endpoints.
> PL: Thank you that's helpful thanks.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you Sharon and Sharon if you want we 
>  can work on a an email and you said we see I do this to keep 
>  talking about this with the community as we get ready right thank 
>  you okay don't see anything else here in the the Q about plugfest 
>  so we have about lunar 15 minutes left so Anthony the floor is 
>  yours for the remainder of the call.
> 
> Topic: Anthony_F._Camilleri - European Learning Model
> 
> <kerri_lemoie> European Data Model being released this March
> <kerri_lemoie> V2 European Digital Credentials Infrastructure -- 
>  moving into JSON-LD (from XML)
> <kerri_lemoie> Released as an online webservice -- anyone can 
>  issue to wallets, open source code, Docker images, online 
>  verifier.
> <kerri_lemoie> Two flavors of credentials: 1) anyone can 
>  register, 2) trusted issuer credentials linked to trusted issuer 
>  regsitry.
> <kerri_lemoie> Visual representation in the credentials
> <kerri_lemoie> Issuer will be the signer but can represent many 
>  issuers.
> <kerri_lemoie> Wallets can extend expiration every 3-4 years.
> https://github.com/european-commission-empl/European-Learning-Model/
> <kerri_lemoie> 6 Million user wallets
> <kerri_lemoie> Mapping credentials against the ESCO DB.
> <kerri_lemoie> Translated into 30 languages (all EU languages & 
>  neighboring countries)
> <pl> Great to hear a timeline for DID support in the EU
> <kerri_lemoie> No support for DIDs in March but will aim to do 
>  this by end of year EBSI & OIDC
> <colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> Thought he was going to say 
>  "integrating DID support until the end of time" 😂
> <simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> EBSI:DID method supported initially
> <kerri_lemoie> Launching an AI that does natural language 
>  processing
> <kerri_lemoie> Thanks @Simone
> <kerri_lemoie> (robot not working for Anthony)
> https://skillman.eu/escodatabase/
> <simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> ELMO - 
>  https://github.com/emrex-eu/elmo-schemas
> <kerri_lemoie> Integrating with ELMO and open to other mapping 
>  integrations
> <manu> Anthony and the EU gets the "VC Overachiever of the Year" 
>  award for 2023... and it's not even March yet! :P
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> mapping collaboration between 
>  ELM and CTDL would be very useful
> <nate_otto> I will definitely be going back to listen to the 
>  recording of your presentation, Anthony, to take detailed notes.
> <simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> standing ovation
> Kerri Lemoie:  And that was an incredible update I hope we can 
>  get you back here early March to soon as you're ready to really 
>  dig into this for us because that was a lot of information and 
>  super exciting stuff that's great Phil we have you in please 
>  happen if you took yourself out okay we'll stop there but yeah 
>  that is excellent and also I just have one question just keeping 
>  an eye on time is a lot of us in the u.s. space.
> Kerri Lemoie:   I've been talking a lot about open Badges and 
>  could you talk a little bit about.
> Kerri Lemoie:  The alignment between those two.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Within the work you've been doing I'm sorry and 
>  with with open badges.
> <simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> with OB3 being VC that integration 
>  should be easier...if not automatic
> <kerri_lemoie> Open Badges support on roadmap --planning for a 
>  data model mapping & wallet should accept different VCs like Open 
>  Badges.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Excellent thank you.
> <pl> Wonderful meeting Kerri - what an update!
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey everybody that was great for a first try doing 
>  it open Agenda I'd like to thank all of you for all of these rich 
>  topics between a badge credentialing and crypto sweets and yeah 
>  and what's going on in Europe holy cow there's a lot of stuff 
>  thank you very much looking forward to doing this again and I'm 
>  Odin Susan I see you in the queue would you like to say something 
>  okay.
> Kerri Lemoie:   All right then.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thanks all! so many great 
>  opportunities for collaboration!
> Kerri Lemoie:  Have an excellent week and I will see you again 
>  soon thank you.
> <taylor_(lef)> Tyty!!
> 
>