W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > April 2017

{agenda} TTWG Meeting 2017-04-13

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 16:43:13 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D51417AC.3CB0F%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
This meeting is scheduled for up to 60m. Please be ready for a prompt start at 10:03am Boston time.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.

Check https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20170413T10&p1=43

Thursdays 10:03am-12:00pm Boston local

Joining details:

see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Oct/0009.html
(members-only link  if you can't see this and wish to join please contact me)

Agenda+ Assign Roles

Chairs: Nigel Megitt

Scribe: usually Nigel  open to offers!

Regrets: none

Activity since last meeting:
See individual agenda items for recent activity on specific products

Cross-product TTWG board: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/board/
We are still using tracker for actions unrelated to issues.
Please do not add or modify issues in tracker!

IMSC: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulse
TTML1: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pulse
TTML2: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pulse
TTML Profile Registry: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pulse
TTML-WebVTT mapping: https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/pulse
WebVTT: https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pulse

Agenda+ Prioritise discussion for this meeting and look ahead

Check-point for order of topics  I'd suggest, subject to reordering:
1. TPAC advanced planning,
2. TTML issues, actions, etc
4. Progress on HTMLCue proposal (placeholder)
5. WebVTT comments (placeholder)
6. AOB  please notify of any other AOB now!

Reminder re future milestones and meetings:

April Meetings:

Thursday 13th April: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hours
Thursday 20th April: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hours
Thursday 27th April: TTWG phone meeting 2 Hours

Further ahead:

Thursday 4th Mary: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 11th Mary: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 18th Mary: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 25th Mary: TTWG phone meeting ? Hour(s)

IMSC 2 and TTML2 publication events: see the timeline of upcoming work at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications#Timeline_of_TTML2_and_IMSC2_work

Agenda+ TPAC 2017 Advanced planning

Confirm that we will request a meeting for 2 days at TPAC 2017.

Agenda+ TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc

Horizontal Review:

CSS Review of TTML2, threads: FW: TTML2 horizontal review with CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0013.html> and Fwd: Subtitle/caption styling + TTML + CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0019.html>

Internationalisation review by r12a has generated several new issues on TTML2 and comments on existing issues (see below), this week mainly about alignment with relatively recent CSS developments.

CSS 2.2 request for reviews from TTWG et al: Pre-announcement of CR for CSS 2.2 & request for reviews<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html> When can we schedule a review and gather feedback?

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-443<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443/edit>     open    Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>   Glenn Adams     2016-08-26      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>
ACTION-462<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462/edit>     open    Create issue on ttml2 to add "mapping from other versions and profiles of ttml"<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>   Glenn Adams     2016-04-28      TTML2<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/4>

Most recent WD published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml2-20170106/

Merged Pull Requests:
Issue 0233 luminance<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/285>
Open TTML1 Pull Requests:
Clarify application of padding (#221)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/233>
Open TTML2 Pull Requests:
Issue 0203 add examples of ja features part 2<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/273>
Adds support for BT 2100 PQ HDR pixels in PNG<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/284>
New TTML1 Issues:
ttp:frameRateMultiplier typo<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/236>
Ambiguity regarding tab (U+0009) processing in significant whitespace.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/235>
New TTML2 Issues:
ttp:frameRateMultiplier typo<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/287>
Ambiguity regarding tab (U+0009) processing in significant whitespace.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/286>
Closed TTML1 Issues: none
Closed TTML2 Issues: none
Discussed TTML1 Issues: none
Discussed TTML2 Issues:
Add support for compositing a TTML2 document onto HDR video<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/233>
Signaling HDR pixels in PNG for use with <image><https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/244>
Specify date as well as hours, minutes and seconds in time expressions<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/96>

Focus topic(s) for this week

Process  we are not making the progress we agreed on and the process by which pull requests are being merged is making it even harder. Some group members are objecting to me that changes are being merged into the ED without consensus. What options do we have for allowing consensus to be recorded clearly and represented by an active version of the spec?

My quick summary of the roles and needs of people fulfilling those roles:

  *   Issue raisers and Reviewers (all Group members) need to be able to trace the fixes for issues and know what issues are open and when issues have been resolved with consensus.
  *   Spec Contributors need to be able to make changes and discuss them in a safe place before they are merged, and have their work properly recognised and logged. This is what the Pull Request mechanism is designed for.
  *   Group members need to be able to establish consensus for a change before it is reflected in public facing documents. There is some ambiguity about how "public facing" the ED is compared to a WD.
  *   Editors need to be able to ensure that the whole document is consistent and merge changes.
  *   Editors need to be able to identify which issues need work doing on them.

The current approach is not helpful for Reviewers, Issue raisers and Spec contributors other than the Editor. To make progress quicker we need more Spec contributors; conversely if we are making more progress we need more granular control over changes and how they are reviewed and merged.

I have two mutually exclusive proposals as Chair for resolving the current situation, and welcome other ideas:

1. We stop doing "early merge" of Pull Requests and wait for consensus before merging. OR
2. We no longer treat the version served by GitHub on the gh-pages branch as the Editor's Draft, and instead create a new branch to serve as the Editor's Draft into which the Editor may merge at will; gh-pages would be made a Group Consensus branch and the Chair or other nominee would merge pull requests, usually from the "Editor's Draft" branch, into it when consensus has been reached.

I realise that these options will not be to everybody's taste, however the current situation is already causing problems. I would ask that everyone tries to be as constructive as possible here please.

In the absence of agreement on any other way forward within 30 minutes of beginning this agenda topic I will regretfully impose option 1 above.


Follow-up on previous discussion re Whitespace handling  can we agree what we want? See also Clarify whitespace handling when xml:space="default"<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/224> and Ambiguity regarding tab (U+0009) processing in significant whitespace.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/235>

Inclusion of foreign namespace elements  is it only permitted on metadata elements, or anywhere? Do we need additional conformance language? See also IMSC issue foreign namespace usage is underspecified<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/213>

TTML1 Clarification of padding pull request Clarify application of padding (#221)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/233>
- we prioritised this last week alongside its TTML2 equivalent; I have not yet seen any pushes to the repo for it though.

Consider applying ipd or bpd to content images<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/140>  can we agree what we want to happen here?

There's no apparent use case for the "any" term in ttp:contentProfiles<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/139>  can we agree what we want to happen here?

Current open issues: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues and https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues
See spreadsheet of editorial actions at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/ednotes.xlsx
Edit/build instructions now in README in ttml2/spec/ at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/README.md

Agenda+ IMSC (now incorporates Unicode ticket)

All liaison messages requesting Wide Review now sent. (correct details for final message took a while to arrive and then vacation caused extra delay)

What are our next steps? We will need to create a test suite for CR.

IMSC 1.0.1 WD for Wide Review published at https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1.0.1/
IMSC 1 Rec available at https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/
Patent policy call for exclusions sent 2017-02-03, archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Feb/0006.html

Editor's draft is directly viewable at http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html
IMSC Implementation Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_implementation_page.

Unicode CLDR discussion
Unicode ticket is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915
Pierre's response to the recent update is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915#comment:9
Email response from Shervin at Unicode https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html

Merged pull requests: none
Open pull requests: None
New or discussed issues: None
Closed issues: None

Agenda+ HTMLCue proposal progress update.

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-441<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441/edit>     open    Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441>      Andreas Tai     2015-11-05

See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Apr/0012.html for further information on this, this week.

Also HTML import and HTMLCue?<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Sep/0003.html> email from 2016-09-06.

[placeholder agenda item]

Agenda+ WebVTT review feedback

ID      State   Title   Person  Due Date        Associated with
ACTION-396<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>[(edit)]<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396/edit>     open    Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>   David Singer    2015-04-17      WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>

Discussion on WebVTT review feedback and next steps.

WebVTT Wide review wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review

Open Pull requests:
Add requirements for region identifier to exist.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/201>
Merged Pull requests: None
New issues: Remove chapters<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/344>
Closed issues: None
Recently discussed issues: None

Agenda+ AOB


Wiki http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText
Received on Wednesday, 12 April 2017 16:43:46 UTC

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