- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 16:34:19 +0000
- To: "'Timed Text Working Group'" <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CEC6592E.15965%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Minutes for this meeting are at: http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-minutes.html
In text form:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
05 Dec 2013
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
nigel, Plh, Glenn, Mike, tmichel, pal, mijordan,
Jerry_Smith_(Microsoft)
Regrets
Andreas_Tai, Frans_de_Jong
Chair
nigel
Scribe
plh
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]IANA Registration
2. [5]Charter
3. [6]Actions pending review
4. [7]Actions Overdue
5. [8]Due Next Week
6. [9]issues discussed
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 05 December 2013
<tmichel> Hi, I will attend the meeting, but I must leave at
16h25 for about 20 minutes to get my son at school. We then
rejoin.
<scribe> scribe: plh
IANA Registration
action-223?
<trackbot> action-223 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Find iana
tracking number for resubmit of mime type registration -- due
2013-10-24 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/223
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/223
Nigel: Mike, you contacted IANA and didn't a response?
Mike: that's correct
... about 2 weeks ago
... so I pinged again
plh: I'll ping our official IETF contact in a week if we don't
get answers
close action-223
<trackbot> Closed action-223.
action-88?
<trackbot> action-88 -- Mike Dolan to Make sure the TTML media
type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88
Charter
action-241?
<trackbot> action-241 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Edit charter by
next tuesday -- due 2013-11-22 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/241
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/241
close action-241
<trackbot> Closed action-241.
plh: s/WebVTT/WebVTT 1.0/ in the deliverables
... fixed typo
Nigel: discussion within EBU about dependency wording
action-242?
<trackbot> action-242 -- Nigel Megitt to Action mark_vickers to
ask ig to provide input in external groups list in new charter
-- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/242
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/242
Nigel: some responded that ATSC needs to be listed
... will follow up with plh
<scribe> ACTION: plh to add ATSC to the TTML charter [recorded
in [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-248 - Add atsc to the ttml charter
[on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-12-12].
Nigel: some debate on how to proceed on the charter
... David Singer is working on it
... the issue which is holding us up is the document license
one
... maybe we can pull back, we would be able to proceed
... we're getting there
... for example, IMSC is blocked at the moment
Pierre: at the f2f meeting, we had a thorough review of the
charter and everybody seemed happy
... struggling to udnerstand why there is further delay
Nigel: yes, but document license is an issue
... hoping we can revert
<nigel> [16]http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html
[16] http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html
Pierre: which version are we looking at?
plh: problem is that the charter doesn't allow the use of the
CC-BY license
Pierre: my understanding was that it can take a lot of time to
resolve this
... how long are we going to wait?
Nigel: we need confirmation that not using an open license is
acceptable
... from David
Mike: what's the purpose of listing the external groups?
plh: getting reviews from them
Mike: concerned with DVB and ATSC. no individual/human there
who cares
... so we have those groups but no one care to review those
documents
Nigel: DVB has a subtitle group
... which will be brought back to life
... with ATSC, I can see your concern
Mike: problem with ATSC is internal
... my first choice would be to remove DVB and ATSC, since our
list is not prohibitive
... if those orgs don't care, I'd prefer not to list them
... how about we leave them off for now?
Nigel: do we need to receive a reply?
plh: we don't need to, but we should contact them
Nigel: adding ATSC came out of the WebTV IG
Mike: this came out of a new member from WebTV IG, but no real
group within ATSC
Thierry: we can't force folks to review our documents
Mike: ok, that's fine
--> [17]http://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison Liaison page
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison
Pierre: when do we expect the AC review to happen?
Nigel: I'll continue to talk to David and get a resolution on
this, within the next calendar week
... but I'm dependent on the response from David
Actions pending review
action-245?
<trackbot> action-245 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Tell mike
contact details for proceeding with iana registration -- due
2013-11-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/245
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/245
close action-245
<trackbot> Closed action-245.
action-247?
<trackbot> action-247 -- Nigel Megitt to Send text version of
tpac minutes to public list - tracker will then combine the
issues and actions and associate them automatically. -- due
2013-11-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/247
[19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/247
close action-247
<trackbot> Closed action-247.
Actions Overdue
Glenn: I just returned from oversea so no progress today but
should ahve by next week
action-220?
<trackbot> action-220 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Investigate
actual css behavior further regarding whether line height of
individual lines are affected by font size on line as opposed
to maximum over paragraph -- due 2013-10-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/220
[20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/220
Glenn: I suggest to reassign it to me
<tmichel> I must leave now for about 20 minutes to get my son
at school. Will then rejoin.
Pierre: this was assigned to me. I did some work on it
... all browsers use the largest font on the line to compute
the line height.
Nigel: Glenn, please review this and we'll close this next week
Glenn: I'll comment on the action
... since I have some new input
action-224?
<trackbot> action-224 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Query mike
on priority for issue-72 -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/224
[21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/224
issue-72?
<trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference
area offset -- closed
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
[22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
<glenn> ACTION: glenn to follow up on action-220, possibly
opening new issue [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Follow up on action-220,
possibly opening new issue [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-12-12].
Nigel: what should be the priority of issue-72?
Mike: we resolved this in second edition
close action-224
<trackbot> Closed action-224.
action-230?
<trackbot> action-230 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Get a review
from pf sooner rather than later -- due 2013-11-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/230
[24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/230
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Oct/0067.
html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Oct/0067.html
Glenn: this seems premature for TTML 2
close action-230
<trackbot> Closed action-230.
<glenn> action-237?
<trackbot> action-237 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Review with
cff folk -- due 2013-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[26]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/237
[26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/237
Nigel: we created in relation to i18n and rendering rules,
languages, etc.
... related xml:lang
issue-296?
<trackbot> issue-296 -- Remove xml:lang placement restrictions
from IMSC -- open
<trackbot>
[27]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/296
[27] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/296
<glenn> action-237: related to issue-296
<trackbot> Notes added to action-237 Review with cff folk.
Pierre: my action is done
close action-237
<trackbot> Closed action-237.
action-238?
<trackbot> action-238 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Follow up on
issue-295 -- due 2013-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/238
[28] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/238
Pierre: this is underway
... plan is to remove Annex B
... and move Annex A into a Note and express it as a superset
of CLDR
(sp?)
action-242?
<trackbot> action-242 -- Nigel Megitt to Action mark_vickers to
ask ig to provide input in external groups list in new charter
-- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/242
[29] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/242
close action-242
<trackbot> Closed action-242.
action-243?
<trackbot> action-243 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Edit
dsinger's proposed wording which captures the intent. -- due
2013-11-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[30]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/243
[30] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/243
Pierre: that's related to issue 295
... didn't find issue with the proposed wording
action-244?
<trackbot> action-244 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Proceed with
work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback
is to remove annex a. -- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[31]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/244
[31] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/244
action-246?
<trackbot> action-246 -- Nigel Megitt to Take deliverables of
draft charter to tag for scrutiny -- due 2013-11-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/246
[32] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/246
Nigel: was waiting for a stable draft
Due Next Week
Jerry: I'm working on my action...
<nigel> action-164?
<trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop
issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[33]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
[33] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
Glenn: I can send you some email about the issue
... since we don't use CSS syntax, we use XML
... there is an escaping mechanism in CSS that we didn't use
... unicode escaping mechanism
... the question is: if you have a TTML document, and serialize
it in CSS, you'll need to be careful
Jerry: this seems that it was a cautious choice, there is a
note in the spec
Glenn: I made the choice, but would like feedback from
implementers
Jerry: I'll close the loop with Sean
<tmichel> I amp now back.
Mike: do we have an issue here?
Glenn: a potential one
issues discussed
issue-286?
<trackbot> issue-286 -- Extend the background area behind
rendered text to improve readability -- open
<trackbot>
[34]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286
[34] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286
Nigel: slightly extending the background does improve
readability, raised within EBU
<nigel>
[35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Dec/att-0
000/mim-xmlsubs0149r01.ebutts-padding-diagram.pdf
[35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Dec/att-0000/mim-xmlsubs0149r01.ebutts-padding-diagram.pdf
Nigel: we were concerned on this behavior on arbitrary spans.
we relaxed the requirement to be on each line
... the pdf illustrates our intent
... proposal is to add an attribute
Glenn: didn't have a chance to look at it yet
... we can use padding on span
... not about repetition of padding at line breaks
Nigel: CSS box declaration break is at risk
... lack of browser implementation
... and we wuld need it
<nigel>
[36]http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#box-decoration-break
[36] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#box-decoration-break
Glenn: there is some support for them
in opera and chrome
Nigel: we'll come back to this one
issue-288?
<trackbot> issue-288 -- Rules for splitting and accumulating
documents -- open
<trackbot>
[37]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/288
[37] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/288
Mike: is this related to the temporal extend of the document?
Nigel: yes
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Nov/att-0
026/mim-xmlsubs0133r05.EBU-TT_Segmentation.pdf
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Nov/att-0026/mim-xmlsubs0133r05.EBU-TT_Segmentation.pdf
Mike: this is adding complication and don't prefer it
... would prefer to have hints and metadata
... this piece of content is going to continue in an other
document, please watch decoder
<nigel> Mike: not in favour of constraining the temporal
containment, would prefer a hint mechanism
<glenn> i need to drop as well
<nigel> Mike: happy to provide a proposal
<nigel> nigel: one issue is the scope of uniqueness of xml:id
<nigel> mike: yes we could typecast the id and add extra
uniqueness rules as a hint
<nigel> ... This may be useful in the archive context too
<nigel> ... It's not a good idea to try to compute
deterministically 'sameness' by comparing text, position,
styling etc.
<nigel> action mike to make proposal re segmentation hints to
reflector
<trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Make proposal re segmentation
hints to reflector [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-12-12].
<mike> clarification - not in favour of *relaxing* the temporal
constraints
<nigel> Mike: regrets for next week
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: glenn to follow up on action-220, possibly
opening new issue [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: plh to add ATSC to the TTML charter [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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$Date: 2013-12-05 16:32:20 $
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:34:49 UTC