TTWG Minutes for 5/12/13

Minutes for this meeting are at:

In text form:



                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

05 Dec 2013

   See also: [2]IRC log



          nigel, Plh, Glenn, Mike, tmichel, pal, mijordan,

          Andreas_Tai, Frans_de_Jong




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]IANA Registration
         2. [5]Charter
         3. [6]Actions pending review
         4. [7]Actions Overdue
         5. [8]Due Next Week
         6. [9]issues discussed
     * [10]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 05 December 2013

   <tmichel> Hi, I will attend the meeting, but I must leave at
   16h25 for about 20 minutes to get my son at school. We then

   <scribe> scribe: plh

IANA Registration


   <trackbot> action-223 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Find iana
   tracking number for resubmit of mime type registration -- due
   2013-10-24 -- CLOSED



   Nigel: Mike, you contacted IANA and didn't a response?

   Mike: that's correct
   ... about 2 weeks ago
   ... so I pinged again

   plh: I'll ping our official IETF contact in a week if we don't
   get answers

   close action-223

   <trackbot> Closed action-223.


   <trackbot> action-88 -- Mike Dolan to Make sure the TTML media
   type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 --





   <trackbot> action-241 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Edit charter by
   next tuesday -- due 2013-11-22 -- CLOSED



   close action-241

   <trackbot> Closed action-241.

   plh: s/WebVTT/WebVTT 1.0/ in the deliverables
   ... fixed typo

   Nigel: discussion within EBU about dependency wording


   <trackbot> action-242 -- Nigel Megitt to Action mark_vickers to
   ask ig to provide input in external groups list in new charter
   -- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN



   Nigel: some responded that ATSC needs to be listed
   ... will follow up with plh

   <scribe> ACTION: plh to add ATSC to the TTML charter [recorded
   in [15]]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-248 - Add atsc to the ttml charter
   [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-12-12].

   Nigel: some debate on how to proceed on the charter
   ... David Singer is working on it
   ... the issue which is holding us up is the document license
   ... maybe we can pull back, we would be able to proceed
   ... we're getting there
   ... for example, IMSC is blocked at the moment

   Pierre: at the f2f meeting, we had a thorough review of the
   charter and everybody seemed happy
   ... struggling to udnerstand why there is further delay

   Nigel: yes, but document license is an issue
   ... hoping we can revert

   <nigel> [16]


   Pierre: which version are we looking at?

   plh: problem is that the charter doesn't allow the use of the
   CC-BY license

   Pierre: my understanding was that it can take a lot of time to
   resolve this
   ... how long are we going to wait?

   Nigel: we need confirmation that not using an open license is
   ... from David

   Mike: what's the purpose of listing the external groups?

   plh: getting reviews from them

   Mike: concerned with DVB and ATSC. no individual/human there
   who cares
   ... so we have those groups but no one care to review those

   Nigel: DVB has a subtitle group
   ... which will be brought back to life
   ... with ATSC, I can see your concern

   Mike: problem with ATSC is internal
   ... my first choice would be to remove DVB and ATSC, since our
   list is not prohibitive
   ... if those orgs don't care, I'd prefer not to list them
   ... how about we leave them off for now?

   Nigel: do we need to receive a reply?

   plh: we don't need to, but we should contact them

   Nigel: adding ATSC came out of the WebTV IG

   Mike: this came out of a new member from WebTV IG, but no real
   group within ATSC

   Thierry: we can't force folks to review our documents

   Mike: ok, that's fine

   --> [17] Liaison page


   Pierre: when do we expect the AC review to happen?

   Nigel: I'll continue to talk to David and get a resolution on
   this, within the next calendar week
   ... but I'm dependent on the response from David

Actions pending review


   <trackbot> action-245 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Tell mike
   contact details for proceeding with iana registration -- due
   2013-11-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW



   close action-245

   <trackbot> Closed action-245.


   <trackbot> action-247 -- Nigel Megitt to Send text version of
   tpac minutes to public list - tracker will then combine the
   issues and actions and associate them automatically. -- due
   2013-11-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW



   close action-247

   <trackbot> Closed action-247.

Actions Overdue

   Glenn: I just returned from oversea so no progress today but
   should ahve by next week


   <trackbot> action-220 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Investigate
   actual css behavior further regarding whether line height of
   individual lines are affected by font size on line as opposed
   to maximum over paragraph -- due 2013-10-24 -- OPEN



   Glenn: I suggest to reassign it to me

   <tmichel> I must leave now for about 20 minutes to get my son
   at school. Will then rejoin.

   Pierre: this was assigned to me. I did some work on it
   ... all browsers use the largest font on the line to compute
   the line height.

   Nigel: Glenn, please review this and we'll close this next week

   Glenn: I'll comment on the action
   ... since I have some new input


   <trackbot> action-224 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Query mike
   on priority for issue-72 -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN




   <trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference
   area offset -- closed



   <glenn> ACTION: glenn to follow up on action-220, possibly
   opening new issue [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Follow up on action-220,
   possibly opening new issue [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-12-12].

   Nigel: what should be the priority of issue-72?

   Mike: we resolved this in second edition

   close action-224

   <trackbot> Closed action-224.


   <trackbot> action-230 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Get a review
   from pf sooner rather than later -- due 2013-11-30 -- OPEN






   Glenn: this seems premature for TTML 2

   close action-230

   <trackbot> Closed action-230.

   <glenn> action-237?

   <trackbot> action-237 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Review with
   cff folk -- due 2013-11-18 -- OPEN



   Nigel: we created in relation to i18n and rendering rules,
   languages, etc.
   ... related xml:lang


   <trackbot> issue-296 -- Remove xml:lang placement restrictions
   from IMSC -- open



   <glenn> action-237: related to issue-296

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-237 Review with cff folk.

   Pierre: my action is done

   close action-237

   <trackbot> Closed action-237.


   <trackbot> action-238 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Follow up on
   issue-295 -- due 2013-11-18 -- OPEN



   Pierre: this is underway
   ... plan is to remove Annex B
   ... and move Annex A into a Note and express it as a superset
   of CLDR



   <trackbot> action-242 -- Nigel Megitt to Action mark_vickers to
   ask ig to provide input in external groups list in new charter
   -- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN



   close action-242

   <trackbot> Closed action-242.


   <trackbot> action-243 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Edit
   dsinger's proposed wording which captures the intent. -- due
   2013-11-22 -- OPEN



   Pierre: that's related to issue 295
   ... didn't find issue with the proposed wording


   <trackbot> action-244 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Proceed with
   work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback
   is to remove annex a. -- due 2013-11-22 -- OPEN




   <trackbot> action-246 -- Nigel Megitt to Take deliverables of
   draft charter to tag for scrutiny -- due 2013-11-28 -- OPEN



   Nigel: was waiting for a stable draft

Due Next Week

   Jerry: I'm working on my action...

   <nigel> action-164?

   <trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop
   issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 --



   Glenn: I can send you some email about the issue
   ... since we don't use CSS syntax, we use XML
   ... there is an escaping mechanism in CSS that we didn't use
   ... unicode escaping mechanism
   ... the question is: if you have a TTML document, and serialize
   it in CSS, you'll need to be careful

   Jerry: this seems that it was a cautious choice, there is a
   note in the spec

   Glenn: I made the choice, but would like feedback from

   Jerry: I'll close the loop with Sean

   <tmichel> I amp now back.

   Mike: do we have an issue here?

   Glenn: a potential one

issues discussed


   <trackbot> issue-286 -- Extend the background area behind
   rendered text to improve readability -- open



   Nigel: slightly extending the background does improve
   readability, raised within EBU




   Nigel: we were concerned on this behavior on arbitrary spans.
   we relaxed the requirement to be on each line
   ... the pdf illustrates our intent
   ... proposal is to add an attribute

   Glenn: didn't have a chance to look at it yet
   ... we can use padding on span
   ... not about repetition of padding at line breaks

   Nigel: CSS box declaration break is at risk
   ... lack of browser implementation
   ... and we wuld need it



   Glenn: there is some support for them

   in opera and chrome

   Nigel: we'll come back to this one


   <trackbot> issue-288 -- Rules for splitting and accumulating
   documents -- open



   Mike: is this related to the temporal extend of the document?

   Nigel: yes




   Mike: this is adding complication and don't prefer it
   ... would prefer to have hints and metadata
   ... this piece of content is going to continue in an other
   document, please watch decoder

   <nigel> Mike: not in favour of constraining the temporal
   containment, would prefer a hint mechanism

   <glenn> i need to drop as well

   <nigel> Mike: happy to provide a proposal

   <nigel> nigel: one issue is the scope of uniqueness of xml:id

   <nigel> mike: yes we could typecast the id and add extra
   uniqueness rules as a hint

   <nigel> ... This may be useful in the archive context too

   <nigel> ... It's not a good idea to try to compute
   deterministically 'sameness' by comparing text, position,
   styling etc.

   <nigel> action mike to make proposal re segmentation hints to

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Make proposal re segmentation
   hints to reflector [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-12-12].

   <mike> clarification - not in favour of *relaxing* the temporal

   <nigel> Mike: regrets for next week

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: glenn to follow up on action-220, possibly
   opening new issue [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: plh to add ATSC to the TTML charter [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [41]scribe.perl version
    1.138 ([42]CVS log)
    $Date: 2013-12-05 16:32:20 $




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Received on Thursday, 5 December 2013 16:34:49 UTC