W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tracking@w3.org > January 2012

Re: cross-site tracking and what it means

From: Jonathan Mayer <jmayer@stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:19:56 -0600
Cc: Shane Wiley <wileys@yahoo-inc.com>, David Singer <singer@apple.com>, "public-tracking@w3.org (public-tracking@w3.org)" <public-tracking@w3.org>
Message-Id: <FE9BA0FB-BF01-40B1-A1E8-3D853FB1770C@stanford.edu>
To: David Wainberg <dwainberg@appnexus.com>

On Jan 19, 2012, at 7:46 AM, David Wainberg wrote:

> 
> 
> On 1/18/12 8:56 PM, Jonathan Mayer wrote:
>>> - 3rd party as a Service Provider:  Able to ignore DNT if service is for a 1st party and 3rd party has no independent rights to use this information across sites (legal and technical protections)
>> There was consensus at Santa Clara that the outsourcing exception requires both legal and technical precautions.  There was not consensus about what those precautions are against, either 1) collecting data that could be correlated across first parties, or 2) commingling data across first parties.  David's draft text proposes the former rule (which de facto encapsulates the latter rule), and I am in support.
> I do not recall consensus on this. Wasn't there dissent regarding the feasibility of such precautions? My view is that legal requirements in this technical standard are not workable.

See the minutes from the first day of Santa Clara.  Shane's proposal was a MUST on legal precautions and a SHOULD on technical precautions.  My proposal was a MUST on legal precautions and a MUST on technical precautions - including origin-scoped data.  The group compromised with a MUST on legal precautions and a MUST on technical precautions, with a non-normative suggestion of origin-scoped data.  It was a great example of consensus-building through compromise.  I hope Brussels will follow suit.

>>> - 1st party in a 3rd party context (Widgets):  1st party is present on a 3rd party site and would act as a 3rd party unless the user "meaningfully interacts" with a branded component which at that point they fall under 1st party rules (need to vet the use cases here in more detail but I believe the group has made good progress here)
>> I believe there is consensus on how the most common widget use cases should turn out.  There appeared to be consensus on the list and in calls to apply a user expectations test to borderline cases, but that consensus may no longer exist.
> No, I don't think we had consensus that a "user expectations" test should be used. A user expectations standard is absolutely unworkable for companies trying to implement. From my conversations with others in industry, the one thing almost everyone says they want out of DNT is clarity. The ambiguity of a user expectations test would, in my view, be a disaster.

My text on widgets in late October included an objective user expectations component.  Tom's subsequent text included a subjective user intent component.  In the lengthy discussions of both texts - in calls, on the list, and in person - I cannot recall any objection to the reliance on user expectations.  That said, I recognize that many in the group are now uncomfortable with a user expectations approach, and that's why I noted that to the extent there was consensus earlier, it "may no longer exist."

As for a user expectations test being "absolutely unworkable" and lacking "clarity" - I thoroughly disagree, and despite protracted grousing from many in the group, I have yet to see use cases to the contrary.  I'm sure it'll make for lively discussion in Brussels.
Received on Friday, 20 January 2012 18:20:34 UTC

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