W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tracking@w3.org > January 2012

Re: Re ISSUE-26: When a 3rd party becomes a 1st party

From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:28:06 -0800
Cc: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>, Shane Wiley <wileys@yahoo-inc.com>, "<public-tracking@w3.org>" <public-tracking@w3.org>
Message-id: <5F0C4FCB-8B47-40C8-A0CF-5C4165429A03@apple.com>
To: Lee Tien <tien@eff.org>

On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:01 , Lee Tien wrote:

> I agree with Bjorn's point, which I take is simply:  there are highly relevant differences among widgets (re consumer expectations) and one such is the widget's self-proclaimed consumer-facing purpose.  By default, Facebook or Twitter is about social in a way that a weather or map widget is not.  

and also, at least the user is aware that they are telling Facebook something when they click on a FB 'like' button.  They may be completely unaware (and probably are) that they are telling MapQuest something when they click on a map widget, especially if the clicking results only in local changes to the page they are looking at.

Maybe there is something about 'evident branding' needed here?

> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 15, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
>> * Shane Wiley wrote:
>>> I believe when users click on the FB "Like" button they every
>>> expectation this is going to set the "Like" for that particular item on
>>> their Facebook page.  Do you have information suggesting users that
>>> click on the FB Like button do not have this expectation?
>> 
>> It does not seem to matter much whether Facebook is first or third party
>> in this particular scenario, a user who understands the "like button" is
>> really asking Facebook to log that they visited this site and when and
>> so on. A better example would be a third party map service. It does not
>> seem very plausible that the map service provider would be third party
>> on load but when the user zooms or pans a little bit it suddenly becomes
>> first party and the user expects this somehow.
>> 
>> I just loaded a random hotel web site that embeds a Google Maps widget;
>> there is no indication that this is some kind of third party service at
>> all, the map just has a footer with "POWERED BY Google Map data ©2011
>> Cybercity, GeoBasis-DE/BKG (©2009), Google, LGV Hamburg - Terms of Use".
>> Who would be running this? Google, Cybercity, the BKG (a federal office)
>> or the LGV Hamburg (a state authority)? Is Automattic, Inc. monitoring
>> all visits to "Powered by WordPress" blogs? The Wikimedia Foundation all
>> visits to "Powered by MediaWiki" wikis?
>> 
>> What about YouTube videos? If you click the YouTube logo, you will be
>> taken to the YouTube web site and YouTube becomes first party. But if
>> you just click the play button... YouTube also becomes first party and
>> may compile a profile about you including all the sites where you might
>> be watching videos, despite your browser telling YouTube you do not want
>> to be tracked, if that is still why first versus third party matters?
>> And YouTube, LLC may then share the data with Google, Inc.? I would not
>> expect that.
>> -- 
>> Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
>> Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
>> 25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 
>> 
> 

David Singer
Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Wednesday, 4 January 2012 00:32:01 UTC

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