Re: SWICG Community Meeting on September 22nd

> All interested Community Group members are encouraged to attend the meeting, especially if you want to record your position on a WG and data portability task force
— jamesg@jamesg.blog

As a point of order, I’d like to gently push back on any interpretation of the above that attending a meeting is the only or primary way for group participants to record their positions on matters or as part of the recommended conensus-seeking for group decisions. 

W3C Process on Consensus <https://www.w3.org/2023/Process-20230612/#Consensus> says "Decisions may be made during meetings (face-to-face or distributed) as well as through persistent text-based discussions.” (emphasis added).

Sustained concerns raised here on-list or other persistent text-based discussions are legitimate concerns, even without a participant in an inconvenient time zone staying up late to attend a sync meeting.

--

> I'd like to focus on only voting for a WG of a specific scope.
- dzagidulin@gmail.com
> We’re voting on a recommended scope to pass on to W3C staff.
- evan@prodromou.name

Voting is not an appropriate decision making process at this point, less than a week after the first discussions of chartering a WG on this mailing list, and less than two weeks after the surprise unposted agenda item at TPAC (minutes not yet posted here <https://github.com/swicg/meetings/tree/main>. We should adopt/post an operating agreement of where the minutes will be published in a timely fashion so we can also approve their accuracy).

W3C Group Process on voting <https://www.w3.org/2023/Process-20230612/#Votes>:
> A group should only conduct a vote to resolve a substantive issue after the Chair has determined that all available means of reaching consensus through technical discussion and compromise have failed, and that a vote is necessary to break a deadlock.

"Consensus is a core value of W3C.”
For more outside of w3c’s process on consensus vs voting, see “Decision Making Models: Voting versus Consensus" from SAMHSA.gov <https://healthandlearning.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Decision-Making-Models-Voting-versus-Consensus.pdf>. 

It’s also worth noting that this mailing list has been accessible for less than 12 months <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swicg/2022Nov/thread.html>, after it was reenabled in part at my request, and after it was unavailable for a few years while the w3.org CG homepage linked to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/ as the ‘Forum’ of record. It would be edifying to document why it was disabled in the first place after SWICG was formed in ~2018.
There has not been much time to gather a representative set of interested parties nor implementors in order to make informed decisions, especially ones like making a group decision on inputs to a WG.

--

Thanks in advance (and retroactively!) to our chairs who have volunteered to respect the W3C Community Group process <https://www.w3.org/community/about/process/#comms> including

> The participants of the Group choose their Chair(s).


> All communications must be archived.


> the Chair must ensure that the following happens:
>     • the meeting is announced to the group in a timely fashion so that people can schedule attendance;
>     • an agenda is posted;
>     • meeting minutes are published, including topics discussions and decisions.

> The Chair must give actual notice to the participants of any material changes to the [operational] agreements

* my understanding is that this SWICG does not have a charter or operational agreements posted, but may adopt new operational agreements as group decisions

warm regards,
bengo

> On Sep 19, 2023, at 1:19 PM, James <jamesg@jamesg.blog> wrote:
> 
> Regrets are noted. Thank you.
> 
> As always, we will have extensive notes taken by a scribe and the IRC transcript for review later. The Chairs may also provide summaries on the mailing list after the meeting.
> 
> Thanks,
> James
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Tuesday, September 19th, 2023 at 18:20, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> čt 14. 9. 2023 v 19:13 odesílatel James <jamesg@jamesg.blog> napsal:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> The Social Web Community Group met on September 12th in a hybrid W3C TPAC session, and in subsequent sessions on September 13th concerning ActivityPub test suite development and data portability.
>> 
>> We have scheduled a meeting for Friday, September 22nd to follow on from discussions during the meetings held at TPAC.
>> 
>> The meeting will be at 9am ET / 2pm UK / 6am PT.
>> 
>> Thanks James. Regrets for this time slot. Have a prior engagement. Though may be able to attend the latter part.
>> 
>> The rough agenda for the meeting is as follows:
>> 
>> - Introductions (optional) and community announcements
>> - IP Protection Note Reminder: (a) Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive contributors to any CG Work Items must be members of the CG with full IPR agreements signed, and (b); To contribute to Work Items: ensure you have a W3 account, and sign the W3C Community Contributor License Agreement (CLA).
>> - Motion to recharter a W3C Social Web Working Group (WG).
>> - If a WG is agreed to be rechartered, a discussion on the scope of said group.
>> - Motion to start a data portability task force that would focus on social web data portability (particularly with regard to ActivityPub).
>> - Discussion on scope of said task force.
>> - Any other business.
>> 
>> All interested Community Group members are encouraged to attend the meeting, especially if you want to record your position on a WG and data portability task force. During the call, minutes will be taken by the appointed scribe and distributed after the meeting, as usual.
>> 
>> If you have any other business to propose, please contact the Chairs.
>> 
>> If you would like to review the meeting notes from TPAC, you can do so from the following links:
>> 
>> - SWICG group meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/12-social-minutes.html
>> - Data portability meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-social-minutes.html
>> - Test suite meeting: [Cannot locate minutes; will follow up]
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> The Chairs
>