Re: SWICG Community Meeting on September 22nd

Thank you for your thoughtful, detailed response, Ben!


>As a point of order, I’d like to gently push back on any interpretation of the above that attending a meeting is the only or primary way for group participants to record their positions on matters or as part of the recommended conensus-seeking for group decisions.


We have published the announcement on w3.org (apologies for the delay) and made amendments to the language with regard to recording positions. All documented notes from community members -- on the mailing list, in the #social IRC, meeting minutes, etc. -- and points raised verbally in calls are equally important.

Please note the CG meeting minutes from last week (https://www.w3.org/2023/09/12-social-minutes.html) are linked on the SWICG W3C wiki, and in the announcement to this meeting. Such link is now available on the W3C meeting announcement page, too.

Do you have a preference with regard to where meeting notes should be archived? We will make sure all minutes from last week's TPAC meetings are archived.

James


------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, September 21st, 2023 at 15:37, Benjamin Goering <ben@bengo.co> wrote:


> > All interested Community Group members are encouraged to attend the meeting, especially if you want to record your position on a WG and data portability task force
> 

> — jamesg@jamesg.blog
> 

> As a point of order, I’d like to gently push back on any interpretation of the above that attending a meeting is the only or primary way for group participants to record their positions on matters or as part of the recommended conensus-seeking for group decisions. 
> 

> W3C Process on Consensus says "Decisions may be made during meetings (face-to-face or distributed) as well as through persistent text-based discussions.” (emphasis added).
> 

> Sustained concerns raised here on-list or other persistent text-based discussions are legitimate concerns, even without a participant in an inconvenient time zone staying up late to attend a sync meeting.
> 

> --
> 

> 

> > I'd like to focus on only voting for a WG of a specific scope.
> 

> - dzagidulin@gmail.com
> 

> > We’re voting on a recommended scope to pass on to W3C staff.
> 

> - evan@prodromou.name
> 

> Voting is not an appropriate decision making process at this point, less than a week after the first discussions of chartering a WG on this mailing list, and less than two weeks after the surprise unposted agenda item at TPAC (minutes not yet posted here. We should adopt/post an operating agreement of where the minutes will be published in a timely fashion so we can also approve their accuracy).
> 

> W3C Group Process on voting:
> 

> > A group should only conduct a vote to resolve a substantive issue after the Chair has determined that all available means of reaching consensus through technical discussion and compromise have failed, and that a vote is necessary to break a deadlock.
> 

> 

> "Consensus is a core value of W3C.”
> For more outside of w3c’s process on consensus vs voting, see “Decision Making Models: Voting versus Consensus" from SAMHSA.gov. 
> 

> It’s also worth noting that this mailing list has been accessible for less than 12 months, after it was reenabled in part at my request, and after it was unavailable for a few years while the w3.org CG homepage linked to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/ as the ‘Forum’ of record. It would be edifying to document why it was disabled in the first place after SWICG was formed in ~2018.
> There has not been much time to gather a representative set of interested parties nor implementors in order to make informed decisions, especially ones like making a group decision on inputs to a WG.
> 

> --
> 

> Thanks in advance (and retroactively!) to our chairs who have volunteered to respect the W3C Community Group process including
> 

> 

> > The participants of the Group choose their Chair(s).
> 

> 

> 

> > All communications must be archived.
> 

> 

> 

> > the Chair must ensure that the following happens:• the meeting is announced to the group in a timely fashion so that people can schedule attendance;
> > • an agenda is posted;
> > • meeting minutes are published, including topics discussions and decisions.
> 

> 

> 

> > The Chair must give actual notice to the participants of any material changes to the [operational] agreements
> 

> * my understanding is that this SWICG does not have a charter or operational agreements posted, but may adopt new operational agreements as group decisions
> 

> warm regards,
> bengo
> 

> 

> > On Sep 19, 2023, at 1:19 PM, James <jamesg@jamesg.blog> wrote:
> > 

> > Regrets are noted. Thank you.
> > 

> > As always, we will have extensive notes taken by a scribe and the IRC transcript for review later. The Chairs may also provide summaries on the mailing list after the meeting.
> > 

> > Thanks,
> > James
> > 

> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Tuesday, September 19th, 2023 at 18:20, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 

> > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > čt 14. 9. 2023 v 19:13 odesílatel James <jamesg@jamesg.blog> napsal:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > 

> > > The Social Web Community Group met on September 12th in a hybrid W3C TPAC session, and in subsequent sessions on September 13th concerning ActivityPub test suite development and data portability.
> > > 

> > > We have scheduled a meeting for Friday, September 22nd to follow on from discussions during the meetings held at TPAC.
> > > 

> > > The meeting will be at 9am ET / 2pm UK / 6am PT.
> > > 

> > > Thanks James. Regrets for this time slot. Have a prior engagement. Though may be able to attend the latter part.
> > > 

> > > The rough agenda for the meeting is as follows:
> > > 

> > > - Introductions (optional) and community announcements
> > > - IP Protection Note Reminder: (a) Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive contributors to any CG Work Items must be members of the CG with full IPR agreements signed, and (b); To contribute to Work Items: ensure you have a W3 account, and sign the W3C Community Contributor License Agreement (CLA).
> > > - Motion to recharter a W3C Social Web Working Group (WG).
> > > - If a WG is agreed to be rechartered, a discussion on the scope of said group.
> > > - Motion to start a data portability task force that would focus on social web data portability (particularly with regard to ActivityPub).
> > > - Discussion on scope of said task force.
> > > - Any other business.
> > > 

> > > All interested Community Group members are encouraged to attend the meeting, especially if you want to record your position on a WG and data portability task force. During the call, minutes will be taken by the appointed scribe and distributed after the meeting, as usual.
> > > 

> > > If you have any other business to propose, please contact the Chairs.
> > > 

> > > If you would like to review the meeting notes from TPAC, you can do so from the following links:
> > > 

> > > - SWICG group meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/12-social-minutes.html
> > > - Data portability meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-social-minutes.html
> > > - Test suite meeting: [Cannot locate minutes; will follow up]
> > > 

> > > Thank you,
> > > The Chairs
> 

>