Re: Public SWEO Challenge? (was Re: Running code)

Hi sweos,

summing up my impression:
* challenge - good idea, but what do give away?
* we could propose a concrete idea, like "do xy with foaf" or let the 
idea open
* we could propose constraints like "it has to do inference" or "it has 
to be usable by my mom" or "it has to be a free web application that 
requires nothing"
* the participants have to provide step-by-step introductions of what 
they did.

Bringing in new info from me:
* yes, lets propose a challenge. its a good thing, and we have to 
twiddle around with the requirements a little, and maybe not call it 
challenge but "search for showcases".
* I would go for something super-simple, that allows a "round-trip" use 
of RDF:
  person A annotates a photo saying that C is depicted, person B 
annotates an appointment that the photo was taken at the appointment. 
System suggests: "Maybe C was attending the meeting?". hm, not so simple.

* the ideas should be open, they can do anything. lets restrict on the 
non-functional requirements. I collected some on this wiki page, 
delete/edit there:
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/WildIdeas


btw: foafme.com was my 2004 attempt to make Henry story's foaf thing 
come true. its java, download it :-) (the gui sucks)


about discussing:
> (we could also do this via e-mail, just takes longer)
>   
>
> Yup, but I guess this could also be on IRC, #swig on freenode wouldn't 
> be unsuited, would it? 
#swig is fine for me, I am there anyway.
its logged and referencable, makes it quotable on wikis or e-mails.




Es begab sich aber da Benjamin Nowack zur rechten Zeit 21.12.2006 14:51 
folgendes schrieb:
> I basically like the idea, although I'm wondering how such a challenge
> could reach anyone who isn't already an RDFer. Maybe we'd have to add
> a requirement like "at least 50% of the team has to be new to RDF" but
> then it sounds a little bit like a desperate attempt to push RDF.
>
> Another approach could be a small selection of projects that we would
> like to see implemented anyway and to offer contribution possibilities.
> A nice example was the w3photo project which had a fixed time-frame 
> (demo/launch at www2004) and was open to anyone interested. It clearly
> needs a second iteration. We didn't achieve very much in 2004 (and 
> it's now just yet another discontinued semweb project), but there was
> media coverage all over the place back then.
>
> And to be honest, I think the main reason why there are not many 
> semweb apps available is not the lack of interest or ideas, but the
> lack of learning how to build them with rdf infrastructure, i.e. *if*
> we ran a challenge that resulted in the ultimate show-case, we should
> publish it with step-by-step documentation so that people learn how
> to build their own. Most of the support requests I get for my little
> toolkit are not about the toolkit itself, but about sparql examples,
> striping, uri generation, graph management, which vocabs to pick, and
> similar general implementation issues. Instead of "challenging" the
> early adopters, I think I'd rather like to pave paths a bit more. I
> met Gartner's former Research VP this year and one of the main 
> problems wrt to the SemWeb's uptake he named was "missing experts".
>
> We could perhaps challenge the toolkit maintainers to create hands-on
> guides for their tool for given use cases, à la. "how to build a foo
> with bar in 10 steps" and then offer a price for the first 
> maintainer + non-RDFer team to develop a working UI/app... Hmm, I 
> guess that can be filed under "WildIdeas"  ;)
>
>
> Just some thoughts,
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> On 21.12.2006 09:10:13, Ivan Herman wrote:
>   
>> Kjetil, Leo,
>>
>> Kjetil's remarks yesterday and the discussion afterwards got my mind
>> going, too:-) I think we referred to some sort of a public "SWEO
>> Challenge", defined by us and sent it out to the developer community. (I
>> think Danny referred to something like that in one of his emails, too.)
>> I have no idea yet what we could 'offer' (apart from general fame), but
>> I am sure the W3C communication guys will help us on that. But it is
>> certainly an idea we should explore.
>>
>> I think the project we would ask for should be different than the ISWC
>> SW Challenge stuffs. The ISWC challenges are aimed at experts, and are
>> usually relatively complex applications that are either not easy to
>> grasp for non-initiated or require a complex setup (I *loved* the Dutch
>> winner this year at ISWC, but to run it one has to set up a full prolog
>> environment plus, afaik, local databases, I am not sure it would work
>> easily on all platforms, etc, etc). My ideal would be a simple
>> application that could be easily run without complex software setups
>> (not everybody has mysql running!), or on a public server (I would
>> prefer the former). Something like TiddleWiki[1] or, in some respect,
>> exhibit[2]. We should also defined what the application is, instead of
>> leaving it completely open; we could therefore control that the
>> challenge is really on a widely usable tool and not some crazy idea that
>> is usable for a few hackers only. Frankly: it would also make our task
>> easier in judging a winner.
>>
>> So let me throw in my idea (I have not seen Kjetil's or Leo's yet:-).
>> Actually, it is not really mine, somebody had this idea on one of the
>> blogs (I should find the reference) but, shame on me, I do not find it
>> now. The goal is to create a foaf based personal address book. Take
>> references to foaf files, display the content with some faceted view,
>> for example (a bit like [2]), use all the tricks to understand some
>> common content in foaf files (geo locations, vcard data, pictures,
>> flickr references, etc) and of course the friends of friends in those
>> foaf files as further possible links. It does not require registration
>> like, for example, LinkedIn, and it nevertheless updates itself
>> automatically because it will always take the latest foaf file content.
>> Ie, I could have my own address list on my machine taking care of itself
>> automatically via the foaf connections. Maybe combining it with some
>> agenda data, a bit like Lee's SPARQL did. It should really be aimed at a
>> useful, *personal* tool, easy to run and with a minimal (if any)
>> installation. I would certainly like to use something like that... (One
>> of the attractive side of this is that there *are* lots of foaf files
>> out there to give this an easy start in terms of available data!)
>>
>> Obviously, this is just one idea. Let us see yours:-)
>>
>> Note that this application would really be for the hackers'/developers'
>> crowd. I am not sure this application would be convincing for corporate
>> usage; Susie, Frank, or Jeffrey can comment on that. For them, the much
>> larger scale demonstrations that the HCLS IG is planning to do is the
>> way to go. No problem there, we just should have a clear mind on whom we
>> are aiming for...
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> [1] http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
>> [2] http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Exhibit
>>
>> Leo Sauermann wrote:
>>     
>>> Es begab sich aber da Kjetil Kjernsmo zur rechten Zeit 18.12.2006 13:30
>>> folgendes schrieb:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I think that at this point, running code is the most important
>>>> outreach we can do. The long tail still thinks that semweb is an
>>>> academic exercise, and they will not be awaken unless there is
>>>> applications that actually does something practical. More theory will
>>>> not have any effect on them, I believe.   
>>>>         
>>> agreed on anything you say here.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I think we should address those who are most likely to write running
>>>> code. Writing code is not within the scope of this group, I guess, but
>>>> to address the many web developers, I think finding ways to get
>>>> running code is the most important thing we can do to attract attention.
>>>>
>>>> I have two concrete proposals that I believe could have a good effect,   
>>>>         
>>> ok, now the crucial bit: in your e-mail, I don't find them.
>>>
>>> I have also one or two ideas, maybe they are the same. I would say we
>>> call each other and see if we can agree on ONE idea that we throw out as
>>> "people, this needs to be coded to show that RDF rocks".
>>>
>>> skype:leobard
>>>
>>> (we could also do this via e-mail, just takes longer)
>>>
>>> best
>>> Leo
>>>
>>>       
>> -- 
>>
>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>> URL: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> PGP Key: http://www.cwi.nl/%7Eivan/AboutMe/pgpkey.html
>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


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