Re: Public SWEO Challenge? (was Re: Running code)

I basically like the idea, although I'm wondering how such a challenge
could reach anyone who isn't already an RDFer. Maybe we'd have to add
a requirement like "at least 50% of the team has to be new to RDF" but
then it sounds a little bit like a desperate attempt to push RDF.

Another approach could be a small selection of projects that we would
like to see implemented anyway and to offer contribution possibilities.
A nice example was the w3photo project which had a fixed time-frame 
(demo/launch at www2004) and was open to anyone interested. It clearly
needs a second iteration. We didn't achieve very much in 2004 (and 
it's now just yet another discontinued semweb project), but there was
media coverage all over the place back then.

And to be honest, I think the main reason why there are not many 
semweb apps available is not the lack of interest or ideas, but the
lack of learning how to build them with rdf infrastructure, i.e. *if*
we ran a challenge that resulted in the ultimate show-case, we should
publish it with step-by-step documentation so that people learn how
to build their own. Most of the support requests I get for my little
toolkit are not about the toolkit itself, but about sparql examples,
striping, uri generation, graph management, which vocabs to pick, and
similar general implementation issues. Instead of "challenging" the
early adopters, I think I'd rather like to pave paths a bit more. I
met Gartner's former Research VP this year and one of the main 
problems wrt to the SemWeb's uptake he named was "missing experts".

We could perhaps challenge the toolkit maintainers to create hands-on
guides for their tool for given use cases, à la. "how to build a foo
with bar in 10 steps" and then offer a price for the first 
maintainer + non-RDFer team to develop a working UI/app... Hmm, I 
guess that can be filed under "WildIdeas"  ;)


Just some thoughts,
Ben




On 21.12.2006 09:10:13, Ivan Herman wrote:
>Kjetil, Leo,
>
>Kjetil's remarks yesterday and the discussion afterwards got my mind
>going, too:-) I think we referred to some sort of a public "SWEO
>Challenge", defined by us and sent it out to the developer community. (I
>think Danny referred to something like that in one of his emails, too.)
>I have no idea yet what we could 'offer' (apart from general fame), but
>I am sure the W3C communication guys will help us on that. But it is
>certainly an idea we should explore.
>
>I think the project we would ask for should be different than the ISWC
>SW Challenge stuffs. The ISWC challenges are aimed at experts, and are
>usually relatively complex applications that are either not easy to
>grasp for non-initiated or require a complex setup (I *loved* the Dutch
>winner this year at ISWC, but to run it one has to set up a full prolog
>environment plus, afaik, local databases, I am not sure it would work
>easily on all platforms, etc, etc). My ideal would be a simple
>application that could be easily run without complex software setups
>(not everybody has mysql running!), or on a public server (I would
>prefer the former). Something like TiddleWiki[1] or, in some respect,
>exhibit[2]. We should also defined what the application is, instead of
>leaving it completely open; we could therefore control that the
>challenge is really on a widely usable tool and not some crazy idea that
>is usable for a few hackers only. Frankly: it would also make our task
>easier in judging a winner.
>
>So let me throw in my idea (I have not seen Kjetil's or Leo's yet:-).
>Actually, it is not really mine, somebody had this idea on one of the
>blogs (I should find the reference) but, shame on me, I do not find it
>now. The goal is to create a foaf based personal address book. Take
>references to foaf files, display the content with some faceted view,
>for example (a bit like [2]), use all the tricks to understand some
>common content in foaf files (geo locations, vcard data, pictures,
>flickr references, etc) and of course the friends of friends in those
>foaf files as further possible links. It does not require registration
>like, for example, LinkedIn, and it nevertheless updates itself
>automatically because it will always take the latest foaf file content.
>Ie, I could have my own address list on my machine taking care of itself
>automatically via the foaf connections. Maybe combining it with some
>agenda data, a bit like Lee's SPARQL did. It should really be aimed at a
>useful, *personal* tool, easy to run and with a minimal (if any)
>installation. I would certainly like to use something like that... (One
>of the attractive side of this is that there *are* lots of foaf files
>out there to give this an easy start in terms of available data!)
>
>Obviously, this is just one idea. Let us see yours:-)
>
>Note that this application would really be for the hackers'/developers'
>crowd. I am not sure this application would be convincing for corporate
>usage; Susie, Frank, or Jeffrey can comment on that. For them, the much
>larger scale demonstrations that the HCLS IG is planning to do is the
>way to go. No problem there, we just should have a clear mind on whom we
>are aiming for...
>
>What do you think?
>
>Ivan
>
>[1] http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
>[2] http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Exhibit
>
>Leo Sauermann wrote:
>> 
>> Es begab sich aber da Kjetil Kjernsmo zur rechten Zeit 18.12.2006 13:30
>> folgendes schrieb:
>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I think that at this point, running code is the most important
>>> outreach we can do. The long tail still thinks that semweb is an
>>> academic exercise, and they will not be awaken unless there is
>>> applications that actually does something practical. More theory will
>>> not have any effect on them, I believe.   
>> 
>> agreed on anything you say here.
>> 
>>> I think we should address those who are most likely to write running
>>> code. Writing code is not within the scope of this group, I guess, but
>>> to address the many web developers, I think finding ways to get
>>> running code is the most important thing we can do to attract attention.
>>>
>>> I have two concrete proposals that I believe could have a good effect,   
>> 
>> ok, now the crucial bit: in your e-mail, I don't find them.
>> 
>> I have also one or two ideas, maybe they are the same. I would say we
>> call each other and see if we can agree on ONE idea that we throw out as
>> "people, this needs to be coded to show that RDF rocks".
>> 
>> skype:leobard
>> 
>> (we could also do this via e-mail, just takes longer)
>> 
>> best
>> Leo
>> 
>
>-- 
>
>Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>URL: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>PGP Key: http://www.cwi.nl/%7Eivan/AboutMe/pgpkey.html
>FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>

Received on Thursday, 21 December 2006 13:53:36 UTC