Re: Public SWEO Challenge? (was Re: Running code)

Benjamin Nowack wrote:
> 
>[snip]
> 
> Another approach could be a small selection of projects that we would
> like to see implemented anyway and to offer contribution possibilities.
> A nice example was the w3photo project which had a fixed time-frame 
> (demo/launch at www2004) and was open to anyone interested. It clearly
> needs a second iteration. We didn't achieve very much in 2004 (and 
> it's now just yet another discontinued semweb project), but there was
> media coverage all over the place back then.
> 

Can you describe, for the others, what this project was/should be? Just
to have several on deck...

> And to be honest, I think the main reason why there are not many 
> semweb apps available is not the lack of interest or ideas, but the
> lack of learning how to build them with rdf infrastructure, i.e. *if*
> we ran a challenge that resulted in the ultimate show-case, we should
> publish it with step-by-step documentation so that people learn how
> to build their own. 

+1. No, +1000:-)

>                       Most of the support requests I get for my little
> toolkit are not about the toolkit itself, but about sparql examples,
> striping, uri generation, graph management, which vocabs to pick, and
> similar general implementation issues. Instead of "challenging" the
> early adopters, I think I'd rather like to pave paths a bit more. I
> met Gartner's former Research VP this year and one of the main 
> problems wrt to the SemWeb's uptake he named was "missing experts".
> 

That is an interesting point. In some ways, I prefer that problem than
missing tools...


> We could perhaps challenge the toolkit maintainers to create hands-on
> guides for their tool for given use cases, à la. "how to build a foo
> with bar in 10 steps" and then offer a price for the first 
> maintainer + non-RDFer team to develop a working UI/app... Hmm, I 
> guess that can be filed under "WildIdeas"  ;)
> 

:-) Not that wild... But I would rather say: the tool builders should do
a "how to build a foo" with someone else's tool. Now, that *is* a wild
idea:-)

Ivan

> 
> Just some thoughts,
> Ben
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21.12.2006 09:10:13, Ivan Herman wrote:
> 
>>Kjetil, Leo,
>>
>>Kjetil's remarks yesterday and the discussion afterwards got my mind
>>going, too:-) I think we referred to some sort of a public "SWEO
>>Challenge", defined by us and sent it out to the developer community. (I
>>think Danny referred to something like that in one of his emails, too.)
>>I have no idea yet what we could 'offer' (apart from general fame), but
>>I am sure the W3C communication guys will help us on that. But it is
>>certainly an idea we should explore.
>>
>>I think the project we would ask for should be different than the ISWC
>>SW Challenge stuffs. The ISWC challenges are aimed at experts, and are
>>usually relatively complex applications that are either not easy to
>>grasp for non-initiated or require a complex setup (I *loved* the Dutch
>>winner this year at ISWC, but to run it one has to set up a full prolog
>>environment plus, afaik, local databases, I am not sure it would work
>>easily on all platforms, etc, etc). My ideal would be a simple
>>application that could be easily run without complex software setups
>>(not everybody has mysql running!), or on a public server (I would
>>prefer the former). Something like TiddleWiki[1] or, in some respect,
>>exhibit[2]. We should also defined what the application is, instead of
>>leaving it completely open; we could therefore control that the
>>challenge is really on a widely usable tool and not some crazy idea that
>>is usable for a few hackers only. Frankly: it would also make our task
>>easier in judging a winner.
>>
>>So let me throw in my idea (I have not seen Kjetil's or Leo's yet:-).
>>Actually, it is not really mine, somebody had this idea on one of the
>>blogs (I should find the reference) but, shame on me, I do not find it
>>now. The goal is to create a foaf based personal address book. Take
>>references to foaf files, display the content with some faceted view,
>>for example (a bit like [2]), use all the tricks to understand some
>>common content in foaf files (geo locations, vcard data, pictures,
>>flickr references, etc) and of course the friends of friends in those
>>foaf files as further possible links. It does not require registration
>>like, for example, LinkedIn, and it nevertheless updates itself
>>automatically because it will always take the latest foaf file content.
>>Ie, I could have my own address list on my machine taking care of itself
>>automatically via the foaf connections. Maybe combining it with some
>>agenda data, a bit like Lee's SPARQL did. It should really be aimed at a
>>useful, *personal* tool, easy to run and with a minimal (if any)
>>installation. I would certainly like to use something like that... (One
>>of the attractive side of this is that there *are* lots of foaf files
>>out there to give this an easy start in terms of available data!)
>>
>>Obviously, this is just one idea. Let us see yours:-)
>>
>>Note that this application would really be for the hackers'/developers'
>>crowd. I am not sure this application would be convincing for corporate
>>usage; Susie, Frank, or Jeffrey can comment on that. For them, the much
>>larger scale demonstrations that the HCLS IG is planning to do is the
>>way to go. No problem there, we just should have a clear mind on whom we
>>are aiming for...
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Ivan
>>
>>[1] http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
>>[2] http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Exhibit
>>
>>Leo Sauermann wrote:
>>
>>>Es begab sich aber da Kjetil Kjernsmo zur rechten Zeit 18.12.2006 13:30
>>>folgendes schrieb:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>...
>>>>
>>>>I think that at this point, running code is the most important
>>>>outreach we can do. The long tail still thinks that semweb is an
>>>>academic exercise, and they will not be awaken unless there is
>>>>applications that actually does something practical. More theory will
>>>>not have any effect on them, I believe.   
>>>
>>>agreed on anything you say here.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think we should address those who are most likely to write running
>>>>code. Writing code is not within the scope of this group, I guess, but
>>>>to address the many web developers, I think finding ways to get
>>>>running code is the most important thing we can do to attract attention.
>>>>
>>>>I have two concrete proposals that I believe could have a good effect,   
>>>
>>>ok, now the crucial bit: in your e-mail, I don't find them.
>>>
>>>I have also one or two ideas, maybe they are the same. I would say we
>>>call each other and see if we can agree on ONE idea that we throw out as
>>>"people, this needs to be coded to show that RDF rocks".
>>>
>>>skype:leobard
>>>
>>>(we could also do this via e-mail, just takes longer)
>>>
>>>best
>>>Leo
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>>URL: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>PGP Key: http://www.cwi.nl/%7Eivan/AboutMe/pgpkey.html
>>FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>
> 
> 
> 

-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
URL: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
PGP Key: http://www.cwi.nl/%7Eivan/AboutMe/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf