- From: Karen Myers <karen@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:56:22 -0500
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Cc: Benjamin Nowack <bnowack@appmosphere.com>, W3C SWEO IG <public-sweo-ig@w3.org>
Ivan Herman wrote: > Benjamin Nowack wrote: > >> [snip] >> >> Another approach could be a small selection of projects that we would >> like to see implemented anyway and to offer contribution possibilities. >> A nice example was the w3photo project which had a fixed time-frame >> (demo/launch at www2004) and was open to anyone interested. It clearly >> needs a second iteration. We didn't achieve very much in 2004 (and >> it's now just yet another discontinued semweb project), but there was >> media coverage all over the place back then. >> >> > > Can you describe, for the others, what this project was/should be? Just > to have several on deck... > > >> And to be honest, I think the main reason why there are not many >> semweb apps available is not the lack of interest or ideas, but the >> lack of learning how to build them with rdf infrastructure, i.e. *if* >> we ran a challenge that resulted in the ultimate show-case, we should >> publish it with step-by-step documentation so that people learn how >> to build their own. >> > > +1. No, +1000:-) > +1 SW competion/showcase. FYI The SpeechTek conference has a competition for VoiceXML that happens at their annual conference. It is a very popular item. They break up into teams and they each have to solve a given problem in a 24-48 hour period I believe. [This isn't necessarily how we would run ours, just sharing what I know.] There are judges and awards for it the day before the actual conference kicks off so it's also a fun activity that generates lots of discussion throughout the conference. I can find out more on the specifics since I know the conference organizers. > >> Most of the support requests I get for my little >> toolkit are not about the toolkit itself, but about sparql examples, >> striping, uri generation, graph management, which vocabs to pick, and >> similar general implementation issues. Instead of "challenging" the >> early adopters, I think I'd rather like to pave paths a bit more. I >> met Gartner's former Research VP this year and one of the main >> problems wrt to the SemWeb's uptake he named was "missing experts". >> >> > > That is an interesting point. In some ways, I prefer that problem than > missing tools... > > > >> We could perhaps challenge the toolkit maintainers to create hands-on >> guides for their tool for given use cases, à la. "how to build a foo >> with bar in 10 steps" and then offer a price for the first >> maintainer + non-RDFer team to develop a working UI/app... Hmm, I >> guess that can be filed under "WildIdeas" ;) >> >> > > :-) Not that wild... But I would rather say: the tool builders should do > a "how to build a foo" with someone else's tool. Now, that *is* a wild > idea:-) > > Ivan > > >> Just some thoughts, >> Ben >> >> >> >> >> On 21.12.2006 09:10:13, Ivan Herman wrote: >> >> >>> Kjetil, Leo, >>> >>> Kjetil's remarks yesterday and the discussion afterwards got my mind >>> going, too:-) I think we referred to some sort of a public "SWEO >>> Challenge", defined by us and sent it out to the developer community. (I >>> think Danny referred to something like that in one of his emails, too.) >>> I have no idea yet what we could 'offer' (apart from general fame), but >>> I am sure the W3C communication guys will help us on that. But it is >>> certainly an idea we should explore. >>> >>> I think the project we would ask for should be different than the ISWC >>> SW Challenge stuffs. The ISWC challenges are aimed at experts, and are >>> usually relatively complex applications that are either not easy to >>> grasp for non-initiated or require a complex setup (I *loved* the Dutch >>> winner this year at ISWC, but to run it one has to set up a full prolog >>> environment plus, afaik, local databases, I am not sure it would work >>> easily on all platforms, etc, etc). My ideal would be a simple >>> application that could be easily run without complex software setups >>> (not everybody has mysql running!), or on a public server (I would >>> prefer the former). Something like TiddleWiki[1] or, in some respect, >>> exhibit[2]. We should also defined what the application is, instead of >>> leaving it completely open; we could therefore control that the >>> challenge is really on a widely usable tool and not some crazy idea that >>> is usable for a few hackers only. Frankly: it would also make our task >>> easier in judging a winner. >>> >>> So let me throw in my idea (I have not seen Kjetil's or Leo's yet:-). >>> Actually, it is not really mine, somebody had this idea on one of the >>> blogs (I should find the reference) but, shame on me, I do not find it >>> now. The goal is to create a foaf based personal address book. Take >>> references to foaf files, display the content with some faceted view, >>> for example (a bit like [2]), use all the tricks to understand some >>> common content in foaf files (geo locations, vcard data, pictures, >>> flickr references, etc) and of course the friends of friends in those >>> foaf files as further possible links. It does not require registration >>> like, for example, LinkedIn, and it nevertheless updates itself >>> automatically because it will always take the latest foaf file content. >>> Ie, I could have my own address list on my machine taking care of itself >>> automatically via the foaf connections. Maybe combining it with some >>> agenda data, a bit like Lee's SPARQL did. It should really be aimed at a >>> useful, *personal* tool, easy to run and with a minimal (if any) >>> installation. I would certainly like to use something like that... (One >>> of the attractive side of this is that there *are* lots of foaf files >>> out there to give this an easy start in terms of available data!) >>> >>> Obviously, this is just one idea. Let us see yours:-) >>> >>> Note that this application would really be for the hackers'/developers' >>> crowd. I am not sure this application would be convincing for corporate >>> usage; Susie, Frank, or Jeffrey can comment on that. For them, the much >>> larger scale demonstrations that the HCLS IG is planning to do is the >>> way to go. No problem there, we just should have a clear mind on whom we >>> are aiming for... >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Ivan >>> >>> [1] http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ >>> [2] http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Exhibit >>> >>> Leo Sauermann wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Es begab sich aber da Kjetil Kjernsmo zur rechten Zeit 18.12.2006 13:30 >>>> folgendes schrieb: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> I think that at this point, running code is the most important >>>>> outreach we can do. The long tail still thinks that semweb is an >>>>> academic exercise, and they will not be awaken unless there is >>>>> applications that actually does something practical. More theory will >>>>> not have any effect on them, I believe. >>>>> >>>> agreed on anything you say here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think we should address those who are most likely to write running >>>>> code. Writing code is not within the scope of this group, I guess, but >>>>> to address the many web developers, I think finding ways to get >>>>> running code is the most important thing we can do to attract attention. >>>>> >>>>> I have two concrete proposals that I believe could have a good effect, >>>>> >>>> ok, now the crucial bit: in your e-mail, I don't find them. >>>> >>>> I have also one or two ideas, maybe they are the same. I would say we >>>> call each other and see if we can agree on ONE idea that we throw out as >>>> "people, this needs to be coded to show that RDF rocks". >>>> >>>> skype:leobard >>>> >>>> (we could also do this via e-mail, just takes longer) >>>> >>>> best >>>> Leo >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead >>> URL: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >>> PGP Key: http://www.cwi.nl/%7Eivan/AboutMe/pgpkey.html >>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >>> >>> >> >> > > -- Karen Myers Development Officer World Wide Web Consortium MIT/CSAIL Email: Karen@w3.org Office: +1.617.253.5509 Mobile: +1.978.502.6218
Received on Thursday, 21 December 2006 14:56:59 UTC