- From: Nikos Andronikos <nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:09:25 +1100
- To: <www-svg@w3.org>
Hi all,
Minutes from today's telcon
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html,text
and as text:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
25 Oct 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec/0016.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Regrets
cyril
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nikos
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Percentage values for 'transform' on pattern,
linear/radialGradient,
2. [6]spreadMethod on gradients
3. [7]Publication schedule for SVG2
4. [8]Filter Effects
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 25 October 2012
<krit> give me a second
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
Percentage values for 'transform' on pattern, linear/radialGradient,
clipPath
krit: what does % on transform functions mean?
... is it relative to the bounding box of the object, i.e. a
rect
... another possibility is user space, or the viewport
... so the percentage would be a percentage of the dimension of
the viewport
... if you compare with transforms, it's relative to the
bounding box
... I would like to do the same with resources, if you have
clippath with a transform, it's relative to the bounding box
nikos: I agree with you
ed: It makes more sense to have it that way
Tav: for somethings, don't we allow the user to select?
krit: there is no way to select for transform
... it is also conformant with how we have done it in the psat
nikos: what about rotation?
krit: we don't accept percentage for rotate
Tav: using the bounding box is easier in the code
... just to be clear, we are talking about bounding box without
markers or stroke?
krit: the object bounding box
... it does not include stroke or markers
resolution: percentage values on transform functions will be
relative to the object bounding box of the referencing element
spreadMethod on gradients
<Tav> [10]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/RADIALGRAD/index.html
[10] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/RADIALGRAD/index.html
Tav: I started looking at the changes to gradients, I had a
question
... what do we do for the different spread methods?
... what confused me, was the second figure (on that page)
krit: the big white circle should be filled with pad
... can we agree that spread methods are still useful?
Tav: well it would be inconsistent if you didn't have them
krit: what I really miss, is having spreadMethod none
Tav: I thought about that and was going to suggest it until I
realised Canvas always does padding
krit: for gradients, I want it to be compatible with Canvas,
doesn't mean we can't do more
Tav: I'm not sure how useful none is
ed: it would mean you wouldn't fill the shape potentially, I'm
not sure how useful it is either
krit: the only graphics library I know that doesn't support
none is core graphics, I think it could be useful
Tav: if you look at fig 5, I wanted to check if it's rendered
correctly?
krit: it is
Tav: the only difference between SVG and Canvas, is what
happens when the start and end circle are touching
krit: there shouldn't be a difference
... you mean fully overlapping right?
Tav: no I mean touching one point (fig 7)
... Canvas does not fill the entire plane, SVG does
krit: I'm not sure about that
... if you think about infinite big circles, the right side can
never be filled
Tav: if you look at the SVG spec, it says you average the
colours and fill the right part with the averaged value
krit: It should do exactly as you have drawn in fig7
Tav: it would be different if you had spreadMethod=reflect or
repeat
ed: the spreadMethod is just how to repeat the colours, not the
shape
krit: correct
<Tav>
[11]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#RadialGradientNo
tes
[11] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#RadialGradientNotes
nikos: is there any difference if the focal circle touches the
outer circle, or if the focal circle touches the outer circle?
krit: there should be no difference
... in Canvas the area to the right should be transparent
... mathematically it is transparent, but it could be specced
to be filled
... do we want consistency?
ed: for CSS gradient the same problem applies, I think Tab was
saying that the CSS group preferred the averaging
... we have discussed this before
krit: it's a question of whether we want to be compatible with
CSS gradients or with HTML Canvas
ed: in general I find it nice if the paint servers fully fill
the given shape
nikos: since we are allowing CSS gradient paint servers, why
not spec the opposite in SVG, then you can select one or the
other?
krit: for Webkit, I'm not sure if it would be implemented
... I'm not sure if this edge case is even implemented for CSS
gradients
Tav: what is the status of the CSS spec? could they change it?
<scribe> ACTION: Krit to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find Krit. You can review and
register nicknames at
<[13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users%3E.
<scribe> ACTION: krit to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find krit. You can review and
register nicknames at
<[15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.
[15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users%3E.
<scribe> ACTION: dirk to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3394 - Craft some test cases to
compare the implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [on
Dirk Schulze - due 2012-11-01].
<ed> [17]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#radial-gradients
[17] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#radial-gradients
ed: look at 4.2.3 for degenerate cases
krit: in this case, CSS gradients don't have focal radius
... if they have a radius of zero, what do they paint?
... I don't think this is the use case we are looking for
<krit> [18]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css4-images/#conic-gradients
[18] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css4-images/#conic-gradients
krit: CSS gradients doesn't matter, because you don't specify
the bounds of the outer circle
... it's not specified in CSS 4 either
ed: so for existing content, it would mean that you would see
through some parts of the shape?
krit: the problem is webkit and firefox always pushed the focal
point inside the circle
... I think Opera is doing something similar
ed: I'm leaning towards aligning with Canvas, but I would like
to see some testcases
krit: We could ask authors what they want? Maybe discuss on the
mailing list
ed: do we want to wait for the test cases? or resolve on one of
the options now?
Tav: I'd say wait
Publication schedule for SVG2
ed: I'm not sure if we decided when the next publication would
happen
... but it would be good to have a date to work against
... so looking at the table of the current plan, we should have
LC working draft in January
krit: it's a tough schedule
ed: that's what I'm thinking, I don't think we can take what we
have now and go to LC
krit: we should have a F2F before LC
... so that would be February
... I would like to have a second WD before we go to LC
<richardschwerdtfeger> rich: I have some travel in Februaary
ed: so what dates would be realistic for a second working
draft?
krit: after our F2F seems to be reasonable
... I think there's more to discuss, i.e. security concerns
from Mozilla
... can we resolve that we won't publish in January? do we need
to resolve on that?
ed: I think it would be good to have a resolution to point to
rich: was someone doing tab-index? what's the status of that?
krit: the question is how much we need to specify in SVG? maybe
we can rely on the definition in HTML5
<ed> ACTION-3341?
<trackbot> ACTION-3341 -- Doug Schepers to is going to look
into conflicts between the model of tab index and navigation --
due 2012-08-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3341
[19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3341
rich: I'm certainly going to use what we wrote up for ARIA in
HTML5 because the wording was good
resolution: goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February -
after F2F
<scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in
wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is
February, after the F2F [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in
server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in
position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq
with the details of what happened.
<scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in
wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is
February, after the F2F [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in
server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in
position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq
with the details of what happened.
<scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in
wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is
February, after the F2F [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in
server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in
position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq
with the details of what happened.
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to update SVG 2 publication schedule in
wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is
February, after the F2F [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in
server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in
position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq
with the details of what happened.
<scribe> ACTION:ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action08]
ed: so that brings last call dates forward a bit, not sure by
how much
... we'll have to adjust the dates to be later
rich: do we know when we are going to go to REC?
krit: end of next year (2013) for CR stage
rich: the reason I'm asking, is I'm working with ePub people,
and they will want to know when the accessibility stuff will
show up
<ed>
[25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co
mmitments
[25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
ed: so looking at the commitments page, there are plenty of
things that haven't been put in the spec
... all the ones that don't have commitment from anyone, are up
for grabs if anyone is interested
<krit> [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/
[26] http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/
Filter Effects
<krit> [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/
[27] http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/
krit: filter effects WPD has been published
... can I remove relaxNG from the spec?
... do we need it ?
... if it's useful, who will write it ?
ed: we had a starting point from a previous draft of SVG 2
... so there are some files that may be ready
... I'm not really sure what state they are in
krit: how does relaxNG work with HTML5 and validating there?
... I would rather remove it, it's adding complexity that is
not needed
... currently, we just have a note in the spec that we want to
provide it
ed: I would be fine removing it
... if we don't have anyone who wants to do the work, we can
remove it and if someone wants to do it later they can
krit: sounds good
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: dirk to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki
to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February,
after the F2F [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Krit to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: krit to craft some test cases to compare the
implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [36]scribe.perl version
1.137 ([37]CVS log)
$Date: 2012/10/25 22:06:20 $
__________________________________________________________
[36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01
Check for newer version at [38]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
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[38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Succeeded: s/sometimes it's nice to have the fill/in general I find it n
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Succeeded: s/some .../some testcases/
Succeeded: s/WG/WD/
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Found ScribeNick: nikos
Inferring Scribes: nikos
WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: IPcaller P3 Tav aaaa aabb cyril ed https joined krit n
ikos rich richardschwerdtfeger scribenick svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
<dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
<dbooth> Present+ amy
Regrets: cyril
Agenda: [39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec
/0016.html
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec/0016.html
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 25 Oct 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: dirk ed erik krit
[40] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html
End of [41]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
[41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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