- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:35:02 +0100
- To: www-svg@w3.org
Hello www-svg,
Minutes are at
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html
and below as text. Thanks to Patrick Dengler for taking his first scribe duty.
SVG Working Group Teleconference
04 Feb 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
+1.425.868.aaaa, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony, Patrick
Regrets
Chair
Erik
Scribe
Patrick
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Changes in spec vs. changes in errata
2. [5]Proposed working for gradient rendering
3. [6]Line caps drawing on zero length lines
4. [7]'symbol' and 'display: none' clarification
5. [8]Further error processing clarifications in XHTML for
example
6. [9]SVGElementInstance mixed support
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 04 February 2010
is this the correct suite?
[11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20061213/htmlObjectHarness/f
ull-color-prof-01-f.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20061213/htmlObjectHarness/full-color-prof-01-f.html
<ed> [12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
[12] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
<ChrisL> Scribe: Patrick
<ChrisL> Scribenick: pdengler
ed: Proposed agenda items
[13]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
[13] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
[14]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
[14] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/
ed: #1 Test suites. These have been updated
pdengler: Should we push out test suites for XHTML
shepazu: Is Microsoft thinking about supporting XHTML mime type and
extension?
chris: pdengler : really?
<ChrisL> :)
ed: Is is possible to move the harness to XHTML
<ChrisL> yes, no problem
ChrisL: We can serve XHTML with no problem
ed: Who can we get to make another harness....
anthony: Is that the only thing left?
ed: No. XHTML should be trivial.
... Many references images were missing or incorrect. Have you done
updates on those?
anthony: No, haven't done that
shepazu: Is it different betwen XHML and HTML?
ChrisL: Shouldn't be
<scribe> ACTION: anthony Create XHTML harness for test suites
[recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2721 - Create XHTML harness for test
suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].
<scribe> ACTION: anthony Fix up references images and missing images
on test suites [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2722 - Fix up references images and
missing images on test suites [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-02-11].
ed: Issue : Changes in spec vs. changes in errata
Changes in spec vs. changes in errata
ed: Was reading the process document regarding how to proceed with
eratta. It does seem we need to keep them up to date as well as get
reviews.
ChrisL: Groups must collected feedback and 'should' do so in timely
manner.
... One method is to mark proposed eratta and approved errata but no
one (?) has ever done it
... Other way is to get review done by publishing the whole entire
document; changes need to be marked for reviewers
pdengler: Is the appending up to date?
ed: Should be. And there should be links to the SVC change logs
<ChrisL> s/SVC.CVS/
shepazu: I don't know if it's useful to maintain the eratta
seperately except as a transtional thing
ChrisL: We were using that process but then we started moving them
directly into the spec.
shepazu: Before move on can we cover anthony's gradient issue
Proposed working for gradient rendering
<ed>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0005.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0005.html
<ed>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0006.html
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0006.html
anthony: Read this and kind of agree with this. If you read the
parts about which order things are applied.
shepazu: What is the gradient normal
CL: perpendicular (90 degrees)
... it's 90 degrees in it's own coordinate system, but if you skew
it should no longer be normal
anthony: Will make this clearer
shepazu: make sense to align for illustrator
ed: Haven't heard about this issue, but we will fix it
ChrisL: All of the editors do it the same way, and some of the
viewers do it the same, some do it different
<ed> s/haven't heard about this issue/haven't seen any bugreports on
this issue/
ChrisL: Will revise wording on gradients next week
ed: topic: read-only vs. non read-only IDLs
<ed>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0008.html
(point #3a)
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0008.html
pdengler: Seem to be inconsitencies here.
ed: Would have been good to have Cameron here.
... Not suppose to be able write to animated values, which is what
the IDL is trying to express.
... if you find other places, send a pointer and we will look at
those
... mutable/immutable would be clearer but not sure if IDL allows
this to be expressed
pdengler: We will investigate this on our side and if we find
anything still as an issue, we will get back
shepazu: keep in mind WebIDL for 2.0 will help remove these
inconsistencies
Line caps drawing on zero length lines
<ed>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0010.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0010.html
pdengler: If we make the adjustment to the spec that Erik suggested
"update F.5 section to also say that 'butt' linecaps means nothing
is drawn"
<scribe> ACTION: pdengler update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read
that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2723 - Update sectoin on line caps (F.5)
do read that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [on
Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].
ed: topic: CSS spec changes
shepazu: the CSS working group has the style spec for the 'style'
attribute; how to parse unit-less values
... Did you (ChrisL) send the response
<ChrisL> ACTION-2718?
<trackbot> ACTION-2718 -- Chris Lilley to write wording about
unitless property values for CSS Styling Attributes Level 1 spec --
due 2010-02-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2718
[22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2718
shepazu: Things like stroke-width, if you use a unit, that's defined
in the coordinate space (root), it could have unpredictable events.
<ed>
[23]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#EnableBackgroundProperty
[23] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#EnableBackgroundProperty
shepazu: Comments are due on the 6th (or 8th)
<ed>
[24]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#FillOpacityProperty
[24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#FillOpacityProperty
ChrisL: I will get them in
<ed> [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/propidx.html
[25] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/propidx.html
ChrisL: Discussion with CSS group wasn't as fruitful this time as
they had other items on their agena
... Didn't get to any stuff that applies to SVG. These are on
wednesday
pdengler: Is there a list of SVG specifics that we want to discuss
with CSS?
shepazu: We should put this on a wiki page for CSS collaborations.
This is the stuff the task for should be covering
<anthony> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce
[26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce
shepazu: There are folks in css trying to push forward items like
animation, but they are not really actively engaged
... There are folks on the FX working group that will help push this
forward; we will be isolate folks who specialize in graphics and
move forward more quickly
pdengler: Isn't tranisitions moving along
ChrisL: It is.
shepazu: We can have some say on how they apply to SVG as this is
not yet articulated
ed: I should publish some examples I made for SVG Open with CSS
transitions and SVG
'symbol' and 'display: none' clarification
<ed>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0011.html
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0011.html
ed: Display should be respected and the spec is clear, except for
x,y; firefox and webkit respect them anyway
ChrisL: The idea was to define a symbol indepdenent of how it was
going to use; where you have no edit control (i.e. symbol library)
shepazu: neither symbol nor marker necessarily makes sense in that
context
ChrisL: Original thiking was a single SVG file with symbols in them
... Fragment was made mandatory, but shouldn't have had to
<ChrisL> ISSUE: non mandatory fragments on use
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2303 - Non mandatory fragments on use ;
please complete additional details at
[28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2303/edit .
[28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2303/edit
shepazu: suppose you had a file full of symbols and you wanted to
reference just one of them, you would still have to download the
whole file
... at what point does it make sense to split them up? these could
be good recommendations for external references.
pdengler: Isn't SVG fonts just another symbol/marker
ChrisL: Yes, SVG fonts is just another use case of symbol/marker
ed: It does give it some new behavior for textual representation
shepazu: Now looking out, how can we cut things down to simplify
implementations
ChrisL: needs analysis as sometimes you find specifics that are
required
shepazu: Let's look at the differences between nested SVG, symbol
and marker, e.g. and we might find the Symbol and marker are just
short hands for nested SVG
ChrisL: If we are talking about refactoring, the number of times you
use markers is low, and if you want markers, you should have a
polymarker elements for example
<ChrisL> I updated ISSUE-2303 to add some details, and assigned it
to SVG Core 2.0
<ChrisL> (discussion on markers and symbols and interactivity)
Further error processing clarifications in XHTML for example
<ed>
[29]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/bold-italic-strike
through-element-inherit.xhtml
[29] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/bold-italic-strikethrough-element-inherit.xhtml
ed: Think it's more of XHTML/HTML
ChrisL: Not necessariy; could be style issue.
<ChrisL> <b> is the same as <span style="font-weight: bold"> so
should inherit the same way
ChrisL: This scenario, really being a style issue should behave in
this manner (inherit appropriately)
... Think about strike through on <textPath>. you have to calculate
geometries if you want a smooth strike-through
ed: Not sure what happens if you do vertical text
ChrisL: Underdefined for non-horizontal text
shepazu: does there exist another convention for strike through for
vertical text? Find out if they use strike through
ChrisL: Japanesese has some examples here
SVGElementInstance mixed support
ed: not deprecated. it needs to be correctly implemented (as has
been done in opera and webkit). I you have test cases that shows
inconsistencies, that would be a good thing to contribute
shepazu: (still on the older topic) Japanese has double-strike
through
ed: only way to get to these is through correspondingElement to get
the actual elements referenced
<scribe> ACTION: pdengler Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM
language
[30]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
nshipWithDOM2Events [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[30] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2724 - Update spec on Minor Correction to
DOM language
[32]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
nshipWithDOM2Events [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-02-11].
[32] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events
ed: topic SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height'
<shepazu> ACTION-4?
<trackbot> ACTION-4 does not exist
anthony: save SVGSVGElement 'width' and 'height' for next telcon
<shepazu> ACTION-2724?
<trackbot> ACTION-2724 -- Patrick Dengler to update spec on Minor
Correction to DOM language
[33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
nshipWithDOM2Events -- due 2010-02-11 -- OPEN
[33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events
<trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2724
[34] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2724
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: anthony Create XHTML harness for test suites [recorded
in [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: anthony Fix up references images and missing images on
test suites [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler update sectoin on line caps (F.5) do read
that reflect nothing is drawn for 'butt' linecaps [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler Update spec on Minor Correction to DOM
language
[38]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#Relatio
nshipWithDOM2Events [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[38] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#RelationshipWithDOM2Events
[End of minutes]
________________________________________________________
--
Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org
Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 4 February 2010 21:35:43 UTC