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Minutes July 17, 2008 telcon

From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:06:22 +1000
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080717120622.GA15918@arc.mcc.id.au>

http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

17 Jul 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0047.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
          Anthony

   Chair
          Erik

   Scribe
          Andrew Emmons

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVGTextContentElement errata (ISSUE-2008)
         2. [6]SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of
            insertItemBefore and replaceItem
         3. [7]Clarify liveness of setMatrix and
            createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods
         4. [8]Timeline for 1.1SE publication/review (and move of
            errata into public cvs)
         5. [9]SVG in HTML feedback
         6. [10]Testsuite
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 17 July 2008

   <scribe> Scribe: Andrew Emmons

SVGTextContentElement errata (ISSUE-2008)

   ED: It was changed slightly to be more similar to selecet substring
   ... Not exactly what Hixie was asking for
   ... We have 3 errata items, you're saying they are done already?

   <ed_>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#svgtextcontentelement-characters

     [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-characters

   CM: First one was adding the UTF-16 code unit language

   ED: Looks OK
   ... I suggest we move it to proposed

   DS: No objection

   RESOLUTION: Will accept UTF-16 errata item for
   SVGTextContentElement, moved to proposed

   <ed_>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#svgtextcontentelement-getnumberofchars

     [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-getnumberofchars

   ED: Next is getNumberOfChars erratum

   CM: Was an existing one, took reference out because it is handled by
   the general paragraph in the previous errata

   ED: Ok

   CM: Brought it back from proposed for this change

   ED: Looks good, any objections?

   DS: No

   RESOLUTION: Will move getNUmberofChars erratum back to proposed

   <ed_>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

   CM: I added a bit where it mentions getting half of a pair

   ED: Looks ok
   ... That was the only change you made?

   <ed_>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/003
   0.html

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0030.html

   CM: Yes

   ED: I made other changes before that
   ... There were comments on this
   ... Does it clamp or give an exception
   ... Was changed before to not throw an exception
   ... But, with the current wording you can get an exception in a
   given case

   DS: I did not find that case compelling

   <ed_>
   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/003
   8.html

     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0038.html

   <ed_>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/004
   0.html

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0040.html

   <ed_>
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/004
   1.html

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0041.html

   CM: Now, always throwing unless you start invalid and run off the
   end

   ED: Could make a special case for 0 as the number of characters

   CM: I can't see it being more consistent one way or another
   ... Can't think of a good reason whyit would be either way in
   particular

   ED: If you do select substring you really want to know a selection
   is made, a reason to have exception there
   ... But getSubString you're really expecting a value back
   ... I would be more in favor of not throwing an exception, but also
   do not feel it is that critical, could leave as is
   ... So, we'll leave this one open for more feedback/thought by the
   group

   <shepazu> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda

     [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda

   <shepazu> oops

   <shepazu> Issue: find sane values for getSubStringLength and
   selectSubString

   <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2017 - Find sane values for
   getSubStringLength and selectSubString ; please complete additional
   details at
   [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017/edit .

     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017/edit

   <scribe> ACTION: CM to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata
   to proposed [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - CM

   <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or
   username (eg. charles, cmccorma)

   <scribe> ACTION: Heycam to move first two SVGTextContentElement
   errata to proposed [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Move first two
   SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due
   2008-07-24].

   <ed_>
   [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#mention-live-values

     [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#mention-live-values

SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore
and replaceItem

   ED: Is an old one
   ... I made this clarification based on feedback by JS
   ... Have a test case

   <ed_>
   [24]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/insertItemB
   efore.svg

     [24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/insertItemBefore.svg

   ED: insertItemBefore has the same issue

   <ed_>
   [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/test-case
   s/consolidate.svg

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/test-cases/consolidate.svg

   ED: Second change,consolidate returns a new object
   ... Any problems with moving this to proposed?

   RESOLUTION: Will move SVGTransformList.consolidate, and
   clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem errata to
   proposed

   <ed_>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix

Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods

   ED: Are these live or not?
   ... Partially related to the previous one
   ... DOes this look ok?
   ... Proposed resolution is to just copy the values, do not adopt
   SVGMatrix object
   ... Robert seemed OK with this change
   ... All implementations I tested behaved this way

   CM: SOunds good

   RESOLUTION: Move Clarify liveness of setMatrix and
   createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods errata to proposed

Timeline for 1.1SE publication/review (and move of errata into public
cvs)

   ED: I want to get the spec out that incorporates all of the errata -
   to have it out of they way to move on to other things

   DS: Sounds like a good plan
   ... What timeline do you think is reasonable

   ED: Anthony has done part of this work already, wanted to get status

   <ed_> ACTION: Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and
   mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Move

   <ed_> ACTION: ed to Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix
   and mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2102 - Move the
   setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to
   proposed [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].

   DS: Perhaps move to Tuesday?
   ... Would be nice for SVG Open

SVG in HTML feedback

   ED: We have some feedback already
   ... I would say it is fairly positive

   DS: Fairly

   ED: Are comments, some parts not perfect, some wrong, etc
   ... I have made some update to the proposal

   <ed_>
   [29]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html

     [29] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html

   ED: This was raised in the bug tracker for HTML WG
   ... Not sure if there is group discussion yet

   DS: They do not typically have discussions at this level
   ... Usually not low level stuff
   ... My concern is that - either no discussion happens and Hixie can
   do what he wants or,
   ... ( done in a way that is not in the spirit of the proposal )
   ... Or, delays and does nothing and people implement towards that
   ... Which has happened already

   AE: Which is why we watned it out of an editors draft in the first
   place

   DS: We need to be pro-active to make sure it is handled in a timely
   fashion so that the final proposal acceptable by the HTML WG is
   implemented, not the commented out previous proposal

   <shepazu>
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0197.htm
   l

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0197.html

   DS: It is interesting - an e-mail by Chris Wilson regarding this

   <ed_>
   [31]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposa
   l.html

     [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html

   ED: If we can have a look at the change log for the proposal

   <ed_>
   [32]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposa
   l.html.diff?r1=1.11&r2=1.12&f=h

     [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.11&r2=1.12&f=h

   ED: One comment from JS, I now defined SVG previx on SVG root
   element

   <ed_>
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposa
   l.html.diff?r1=1.12&r2=1.13&f=h

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.12&r2=1.13&f=h

   ED: Next is feedback from implementer of previous proposal
   ... GOod feedback
   ... Took some of his comments and incorperated them into the
   proposal

   <ed_>
   [34]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposa
   l.html.diff?r1=1.13&r2=1.14&f=h

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.13&r2=1.14&f=h

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to e-mail specific feedback responses and also
   to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to
   live doc and diff [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2103 - E-mail specific feedback responses
   and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given
   links to live doc and diff [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].

   <scribe> ACTION: Doug to nag HTML WG about proposal [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2104 - Nag HTML WG about proposal [on Doug
   Schepers - due 2008-07-24].

Testsuite

   ED: Saw a few tests created, good

   <ed_>
   [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/004
   6.html

     [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0046.html

   ED: I went through scripting coverage a bit
   ... Added 1 test for listener element
   ... Testing that no special handling of listener element
   ... I will continue making tests in this area
   ... AE, you added a few?

   AE: Yes, added a few progress event tests and a timer test. Will now
   work on runtime sync tests

   DS: I added a draft of mine in CVS

   CM: I added some SVGGlobal tests
   ... binaryToString one needs close attention
   ... ParseXML Batik's implementation is simple, matches what ASV used
   to do
   ... Tests tricky XML 1.1 stuff as well

   <heycam>
   [38]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080717004454.GA10624@arc.mcc.id.au

     [38] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080717004454.GA10624@arc.mcc.id.au

   AE: Your suggestion sounds reasonable

   <scribe> ACTION: Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when
   invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Update

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR
   when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2105 - Update stringToBinary to add
   ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [on Cameron
   McCormack - due 2008-07-24].

   [41]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

     [41] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

   <shepazu>
   [42]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-220-t.sv
   g and
   [43]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-230-t.sv
   g

     [42] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-220-t.svg
     [43] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-230-t.svg

   DS: One of my tests - I would like to discuss
   ... CM had written a test for textEvent

   <shepazu>
   [44]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-207-t.sv
   g

     [44] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-207-t.svg

   DS: I made 220 and 230 to fill in the gaps
   ... WIth this, press SHIFT key, claims it passes but not quite
   correct
   ... textInput not just keyboard - voice, clipboard could use text
   ... keyboard is different

   CM: I'd say this is a bug in Batik

   DS: We should specify that it is not a keyboard thing
   ... Should only say it is character values
   ... How would you test for that?
   ... perhaps check all range of characters

   CM: Tough thing to test, yes

   DS: Good enough as is for a positive test, not a good negative test

   CM: Not sure it is possible to test an event is not sent if no text
   is available

   AE: Could update the pass criteria

   CM: Yes

   DS: Yes
   ... Add a second pass criteria

   <ed_> DOMCharacterDataModified

   <ed_>
   [45]http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-Mutat
   ionEvent

     [45] http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-MutationEvent

   DS: I should point out what the relationship is

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when
   invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: CM to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to
   proposed [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Doug to nag HTML WG about proposal [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: ed to Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix
   and mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to e-mail specific feedback responses and also to
   e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to
   live doc and diff [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Heycam to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata
   to proposed [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and
   mention-live-values to proposed [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid
   UTF-16 DOMString is used [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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    ([55]CVS log)
    $Date: 2008/07/17 12:03:50 $
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     [55] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Found Scribe: Andrew Emmons

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AE CM DS Doug_Schepers ED Issue P0 P4 P5 P6 aemmons a
nthony ed_ ed_work heycam joined jwatt shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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Regrets: Anthony
Agenda: [57]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
p/0047.html
Found Date: 17 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [58]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: cameron cm doug ed erik heycam move stringtob
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     [57] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0047.html
     [58] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html

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-- 
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/
Received on Thursday, 17 July 2008 12:07:20 UTC

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