W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-socialweb@w3.org > March 2015

Re: process request -- was: Using a Smart Client

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 15:44:24 +0100
Message-ID: <54FC6048.3050608@w3.org>
To: "henry.story@bblfish.net" <henry.story@bblfish.net>
CC: Elf Pavlik <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>, Social Web Working Group <public-socialweb@w3.org>


On 03/08/2015 03:40 PM, henry.story@bblfish.net wrote:
> 
>> On 8 Mar 2015, at 15:27, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org> wrote:
>>
> 
> 
> On 03/08/2015 11:54 AM, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ wrote:
>>>> On 03/08/2015 08:18 AM, henry.story@bblfish.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 Mar 2015, at 02:56, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/2015 10:13 PM, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2015 06:32 PM, henry.story@bblfish.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 7 Mar 2015, at 18:17, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ 
>>>>>>>>>> <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2015 06:05 PM, henry.story@bblfish.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> [snip] Tanket wrote: " too much plumbing for v1."
>>>>>>>>>>> What is too much plumbing?
>>>>>>>>>> Henry, both Tantek and Aaron choose not to participate
>>>>>>>>>> in this mailing list, I recommend you discussing it
>>>>>>>>>> with them over IRC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you can lave messages there using !tell e.g. !tell
>>>>>>>>>> tantek let's talk about Using a Smart Client
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ?!?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry but participation in W3C WG requires all members to
>>>>>>>>> use the same mailing list. We can't just work over 20
>>>>>>>>> different channels. What is written elsewhere, is not
>>>>>>>>> archived by the W3C and so has no weight in the process.
>>>>>>>> You could also meet on IRC and even use one time call
>>>>>>>> bridge 
>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig#Instructions_for_creating_a_one-time_call_bridge
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
> AFAIK you can invite RRSAgent any time to #social IRC channel and
>>>>>>>> it will log the conversation
>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Henry, I can understand your frustration but also please
>>>>>>>> understand that Tantek, Aaron and other IndieWeb folks find
>>>>>>>> mailing lists unproductive and draining energy. IMO we
>>>>>>>> don't have 20 but just 4 official channels: mailing-list,
>>>>>>>> wiki, IRC, tracker + telecons which gives us enough
>>>>>>>> flexibility to not force others to do something they really
>>>>>>>> don't want to do. And I know that you use IRC anyways :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW on #indiewebcamp IRC i see Postel's law mentioned
>>>>>>>> pretty often 
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle "Be
>>>>>>>> conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you
>>>>>>>> accept"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like clarification on process from the W3C
>>>>>
>>>>> They are subscribed to the mailing list and attend calls.
>>>>> However, I don't think there's any part of W3C process that
>>>>> requires WG members to respond to every email they get. I suggest
>>>>> that you try to chat with them over IRC as well, and we can raise
>>>>> this issue on the next telecon.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fine for raising it at the next teleconf.
>>>> added to 
>>>> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-10#Additional_Agenda_Items
>>>>
>>>>
> Yes, it's important that everyone have their voices heard. It's normal
> in W3C to use IRC and a wiki in addition to email. I do agree its a
> problem when folks get "out of sync" with communication tools, which
> is why weekly telecons are important.
> 
>> It's not about hearing voices. It's about dialog:  if the channels
>> are split it cannot be a group discussion, so that we cannot really
>> be transformed by the process. Also if you wish to have all the 
>> discussions on the one organised teleconference, then I'd suggest you 
>> make a request to extend the Working Group's life by another 5 or 6
>> years, because the bandwidth on that channel is very low, short, and
>> often noisy, with people loosing connections, etc... There are the 
>> working group meetings but not everyone is attending those either 
>> and they only happen twice a year.

Most other Working Group uses a mixture of wiki, IRC, and mailing lists
and increasingly bugzilla/github (rather than mailing lists, although in
W3C I prefer to have bugzilla comments archived to the mailing list,
which we can rather easily do).

> 
>> For the moment btw, I don't really know if Tantek really would be
>> online and answer if I call him there. That was just Elf's suggestion.
>> But in any case the problem goes beyond this particular case.

Again, we cannot make people agree. At W3C, we can provide a space for
dialogue. I have found in general tantek is very responsive in IRC.


> 
> 
> 
>         cheers,
>              harry
> 
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
> 
Received on Sunday, 8 March 2015 14:44:32 UTC

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