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Re: extension model of RSS/Atom (ISSUE-16 discussion)

From: ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:47:59 +0200
Message-ID: <552AD9FF.3000700@wwelves.org>
To: Erik Wilde <dret@berkeley.edu>, "public-socialweb@w3.org" <public-socialweb@w3.org>
CC: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
On 04/12/2015 06:29 PM, Erik Wilde wrote:
> hello elf.
Hi Erik,

> 
> On 2015-04-12 00:36, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ wrote:
>> On 04/07/2015 10:06 PM, Erik Wilde wrote:
>>> Atom is doing things differently because XML provides a better way of
>>> separating vocabularies with namespaces. that's an important benefit
>>> that neither JSON nor JSON-LD have. that also makes it easier to
>>> separate possible future spec changes from openness/extensions. again
>>> that's something that we don't get out of the box.
>> Could you please explain how do you see JSON-LD not having capacity to
>> separate vocabularies with namespaces?
> 
> JSON-LD maps things into RDF where things aren't namespaced, but simply
> identified by URI. regardless of that, what a context does is only
> visible to you when you implement JSON-LD and then look at the mapped
> data. the current extensibility model does not require
> 
> (a) a context to be present to begin with, and
> 
> (b) JSON-LD processing to make use of it, if it is.
* http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#extensibility
** http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#compact-iris
''The property name foaf:givenName is a Compact IRI that expands to
"http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/givenName" when processed by a JSON-LD
implementation.''

While spec defines how to expand just few common prefixes, it also uses
in example *gr:Location* not included in this list.
http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#fig-an-object-that-is-both-a-place-and-a-gr-location

Without JSON-LD context like:
"@context": [
    "http://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
    { "gr": "http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#" }
]

system consuming such activities from multiple different sources could
wrongly consider two compact IRIs as identical. For example if another
system would define.
"@context": [
    "http://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
    { "gr": "http://example.net/greatraves#" }
]

While one does NOT need to use http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld-api/ may
still need information in JSON-LD context for example to expand compact
IRIs or set the default language.

BTW I already put on agenda for our next call ISSUE-36
{
  "@id":
"https://graph.hackers4peace.net/a449863e-43b8-4bf2-9de3-03835aefc93c",
  "url":
"https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2015-04-14&oldid=83471",
  "@type": "Add",
  "as:actor": "https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper",
  "date": "12:13, 10 April 2015",
  "as:object": {
    "@id": "https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/36",
    "@type": ["Issue", "sioc:Item"],
    "dcterms:title": "ISSUE-36: Role and evolution of recommended
JSON-LD contexts",
    "rdfs:seeAlso": [
      "http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#compact-iris"
  },
  "as:target": {
    "@id": "https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-04-14#Agenda",
    "@type": ["Agenda", "sioc:Container],
   ]
  }
}

> 
> you're definitely right that one can be disciplined in AS2, and it seems
> that you are. but that's because you're operating in RDF-land and make
> sure that everything in AS2 is used to make this possible.
> 
> since for now we're still saying we're "JSON-based" and should also
> demonstrate what this means when you're *not* operating in RDF-land, we
> have to be clear what it means when people are not as careful as you,
> and what it means for these two different user groups (JSON users and
> RDF users) to interact via AS2.
Once again, IMO to make it possible we really need to come up with smart
strategy for using JSON-LD contexts

> 
> you can think of this as the exact equivalent of pre-infoset XML: people
> could be disciplined and use it in the way later formalized by XMLNS,
> but pre-XMLNS, it was ok for people to produce non-XMLNS XML, and the
> question then is what's that supposed to mean. we keep dodging that
> question, and i think it's going to bite us.
I must admit not knowing so much about history around XML technologies.
Thank your for sharing this perspective, will need to

{
  "@id": "https://graph.wwelves.org/6cc66661-9e7a-4ffa-b24d-7443d5bb1716",
  "@type": ["verb:Read", "as:IntendedActivity"],
  "rdfs:comment": "read about XMLNS",
  "as:actor": {
    "@id": "https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper",
    "@type": ["Elf", "foaf:Person"],
    "name": "elf Pavlik",
    "foaf:account": "mailto:perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org"
  },
  "as:object": {
    "@type": "sioc:Posting",
    "sioc:about": "http://dbpedia.org/resource/XML_namespace",
    "dcterms:license": { "@type": "cc:License" },
    "affordance": "verb:Read"
  },
  "rdfs:seeAlso": [
    { "@id": "https://gist.github.com/elf-pavlik/b631d6253dd6210d541c",
      "rdfs:label": "Paste" },
    { "@id": "http://tinyurl.com/n6svgbr",
      "rdfs:label": "JSON-LD Playground" }
  ]
}

BTW

{
  "@type": ["opo-actions:Reading", "as:IntendedActivity"]
  "as:actor": "https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper",
  "as:object": {
    "@id": "http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#scope",
    "text": "A transfer syntax for social data such as activities (such
as status updates) should include at least the ability to describe the
data using *URIs* in an *extensible* manner, time-stamping, and should
include a serialization compatible with Javascript (JSON) and possibly
JSON-LD. Formats based on XML or other data serializations are
out-of-scope.",
    "rdfs:seeAlso": "http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#compact-iris"
  }
}

TODO

{
  "@type": ["Work", "as:IntendedActivity"]
  "as:actor": "https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper",
  "as:object": {
    "@id": "https://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/issues/4",
    "@type": ["Issue", "sioc:Item"],
    "dcterms:title": "ISSUE-4: management of 'living' vocabularies
similar to microformats.org and schema.org",
    "rdfs:seeAlso": [
      "http://prefix.cc/",
      "http://lov.okfn.org/",
      "http://schema.org/",
      "http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values",
      *http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml"
    ]
}


> 
> cheers,
> 
> dret.

:)



Received on Sunday, 12 April 2015 20:48:12 UTC

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