- From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:48:37 -0500
- To: Jeanne Spellman <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>, Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKdCpxwLEG_XzARo7JggvhmADG6o_REZHmGjitPyQaERkUSB+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Hello All, Prompted by Rachael's scoring proposal, I've taken a quick look at the tests related to Clear Language, and at this time I have significant concerns related to internationalization. Specifically, we appear at this time to be using the following as a basic test assumption (from: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/Method-plain-language-principles.html ) ...and echo'd in Rachael's document ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D18qg5pvne94jNvUwvj_Of36E8re6AB4tubdLpmhWOw/edit?pli=1# ): Basic Tests 1. Is spelling correct? (automated) 2. Is grammar correct? (automated) 3. *Is active voice used? (assisted)* 4. *Is a simple tense used? (assisted)* Some quick and basic research suggests to me that this is very "western-centric" and will not scale to all languages. Please see: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-language-without-the-grammatical-passive-voice Additionally, while there are 12 major verb tenses for English related to "time" (past, present, future - divided into four aspects: the simple, progressive, perfect and perfect progressive), that may not always be applicable. Chinese, for example, has no grammatical verb tenses. Other languages, like Indonesian, express time only through adverbs — there are no changes to the verb form. (source: https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/introduction-to-verb-tenses-everyday-grammar/3123576.html ) I do not claim to be a linguist or internationalization expert, but if 15 minutes of research turns up these concerns, then I must respectfully suggest we need to stop and rethink how to make this work for *all* languages, and not just western/romance languages. I do not at this time have a proposal for a path forward, but at the same time I am speaking up to say I think we are currently on the wrong path. Testing for tense and 'voice' (active/passive) are language specific, and not applicable everywhere. FWIW JF
Received on Thursday, 2 April 2020 16:49:29 UTC