- From: Andreas Harth <harth@kit.edu>
- Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:15:18 +0100
- To: <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Hi, why do you call an information resource/graph a "feature"? They way you use that terminology does not have anything to do with spatial data. In your terminology, we would have: * http://harth.org/andreas/foaf.rdf#ah - identifying the thing/me as a person * http://harth.org/andreas/foaf.rdf - identifying the feature (?) Calling an information resource (in the Linked Data sense)/graph/ RDF document a "Feature" is a bad idea. In NeoGeo, we use "Feature" for the spatial thing [1]. My impression was that GeoSPARQL did something similar. I don't have access to the definition of "GFI_Feature" of ISO 19156:2011 though. So the following classes would be roughly equivalent (namespaces via prefix.cc): * spatial:Feature * geosparql:Feature * dcterms:Location * wgs84:SpatialThing Cheers, Andreas. [1] http://geovocab.org/spatial#Feature On 10/22/2015 11:39, Simon.Cox@csiro.au wrote: > >> Does that mean that if I want to express this in RDF, I need three > URIs? One for the real-world-thing, one for the feature and one for the > feature representation? > > ØHopefully you're a little less confused. In my mind we have just two URIs: > > oURI identifying 'Thing' > > oURI identifying 'description of Thing' / 'Feature' / 'graph' > > It is also OK to have distinct URIs for the concrete > representation/serialization/format of the feature. > > Conventionally this is often the URI for the feature with a suffix like > .rdf, .xml, .ttl appended (as an alternative to http conneg). > > e.g. > > http://places.net/thing/eddystone-lighthouse is a URI denoting a thing > in the world > > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse is the URI for a feature > > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse.xml > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse.ttl are URIs for > different serializations of the feature, so > > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse foaf:primaryTopic > http://places.net/thing/eddystone-lighthouse . > > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse prv:serializedBy > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse.xml > > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse.xml dct:hasFormat > http://example.org/feature/eddystone-lighthouse.ttl . > > However, to a dumb URI consumer, which has no conception of ‘suffix’, > these are different URIs. > > Simon > > *From:*Jeremy Tandy [mailto:jeremy.tandy@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, 22 October 2015 8:30 PM > *To:* Svensson, Lars <L.Svensson@dnb.de>; Joshua Lieberman > <jlieberman@tumblingwalls.com> > *Cc:* public-sdw-wg@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: Does 'Feature' = 'Real World Thing'? > > All- many thanks again for contributions to this topic! I think that we > have a resolution- or at least sufficient resolution for us to move forward. > > @Clemens ... you said: > > > there is no concept that would support using the same identifier for > both features [...]. A feature instance is of exactly one feature type, > it cannot be of the feature type "light house" from application schema A > and "vertical obstruction" of application schema B. > > I think that this relates to the frame-based _information_ modelling > approach used for creating Application Schema. And yes- this is > different to the approach taken with RDF. > > @Simon ... based on going back to the spec, you conclude: > > > the term ‘Feature’ clearly refers to the abstraction, information, > data. [... So we must] Use ‘Thing’ for the real-world (including > fictional) thing, and ‘feature’ for an information object that describes > it, according to some viewpoint. > > > regarding Jeremy’s ‘what is the subject’ question, a case could be > made for using a URI for the real-world thing as the subject in RDF > statements in all cases, regardless of the model or ‘feature-type’ in > use, while the set of statements relating to a specific viewpoint > (feature-type) comprises a graph. The URI for a graph identifies the > ‘feature’, while the URI for a thing in the world can be subject of > statements from all viewpoints. > > +1 from me. This is the conclusion that I had also reached ... > > 1. We identify the real-world (including fictional) Thing. > 2. We identify a collection of statements (e.g. a graph) that describe > the Thing according to a given perspective; the Feature. The Thing > is the subject of the statements. > > This works for me. > > Regarding point (2) it's worth noting that (at least from my pov) it is > best practice for Application Schema to be solely concerned with the > conceptual model (the 'universe of discourse'); attributes of the Thing > that are deemed important in the application domain. That said, I often > see Application Schema with Feature Types that conflate the 'Thing' and > 'Feature' (aka information resource) subjects so that the collection of > properties defined by the Feature Type are a mixture of those that talk > about the 'Thing' (e.g. height; an instance might assert height = 37ft > ... this is clearly about the 'Thing') and those that are metadata about > the 'Feature' (information object) itself (e.g. creation date, last > update time, license, owner, maintainer etc.). This makes it very > difficult to merge data from such instances of those Feature Types > because the subject isn't clear. > > [OK- if that passed you by, don't worry] > > @Josh ... you said: > > > We can happen to recognize two things that have close the same > spatial extent (and temporal extent). That doesn’t make them the same > “thing”. [...] We learn something by interpreting the collocation, just > as layering features in a map brings insight. > > Indeed. Collocation is a useful indicator but, by itself, is often > insufficient to determine 'sameness'. > > If we apply Simon's proposal that the 'Thing' is the subject of the > statements in the Feature, two (or more) Features may use the same > 'Thing' as their subject. This is an explicit assertion of sameness and > is achieved either by both Features using the same identifier for their > subject, or by using the 'sameAs' assertion to say that the two > identifiers actually refer to the same Thing. These are very strong > assertions, not to be taken lightly. > > Regarding the reconciliation of data that is apparently talking about > the same thing, Ed previously said "here be dragons" [1]. > > @Lars ... > > > Does that mean that if I want to express this in RDF, I need three > URIs? One for the real-world-thing, one for the feature and one for the > feature representation? > > Hopefully you're a little less confused. In my mind we have just two URIs: > > * URI identifying 'Thing' > * URI identifying 'description of Thing' / 'Feature' / 'graph' > > Why two URIs? Why can't we just have one? It's clear that we have two > resources: the 'Thing' and 'description of Thing'. The Web Architecture > [2] (that we agreed forms a foundational aspect of our best practice) > states: > > */Constraint: URIs Identify a Single Resource/* > > Assign distinct URIs to distinct resources. > > Furthermore, the need to treat 'Thing' and 'description of Thing' as > disjoint resources is the subject of W3C URLs in Data Primer [3]. > 'Feature' is synonymous with the term 'Record' [4] defined therein. > > Section 4 'Documenting Properties' [5] notes that: > > "A data format that mixes properties about [...] records and properties > about the things those [...] records describe is not necessarily > ambiguous: all that's required for developers to understand what the > properties actually apply to is for the meaning of the property to be > documented." > > This is exactly the situation we have with many existing (GML) > Application Schema. URLs in Data proposes how to declare which property > is which type. Section 5.3 'Publishing Data' [6] says that: > > "Publishers can help enable more accurate merging of data from different > sites if they support URLs for each entity > <http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#dfn-entity> they or other sites may > wish to describe, separate from the [...]records > <http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#dfn-record> that they publish." > > So it's best two have 2 URIs; one for each of Thing and Feature. > > Jeremy > > [1]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2015Sep/0059.html > > [2]: http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#id-resources > > [3]: http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/ > > [4]: http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#dfn-record > > [5]: http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#documenting-properties > > [6]: http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#publishing-data > > On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 at 07:37 Svensson, Lars <L.Svensson@dnb.de > <mailto:L.Svensson@dnb.de>> wrote: > > On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 10:38 PM, Joshua Lieberman wrote: > [...] > > [Clemens] > > > But first of all, the feature is an information object > describing a real-world > > thing. > > > > That's consistent with the definition of Spatial Object in > INSPIRE. Restated: > > • Feature != Real-World Thing > > • Feature = Information Resource that _describes_ Real-World Thing > > @Josh, @Simon: can you confirm this meets your expectations? > > [Josh] > > Almost. There are two feature statements needed to get from the > world to > > spatial data: > > > > 1. Feature = discernment of a type of Real-World Thing (as > distinct from Not > > Thing) > > 2. Feature Data = representation of a Feature (as an information > resource) > > Does that mean that if I want to express this in RDF, I need three > URIs? One for the real-world-thing, one for the feature and one for > the feature representation? > > Best, > > Lars (who starts to feel confused...) >
Received on Thursday, 22 October 2015 11:15:58 UTC