Re: Eurocentrism, incorrect unit abbreviations, and proprietary Royalist Engish (sic) terms

​Hi all – I'm puzzled again. ​
How does this
​revision ​
improve the situation? It still uses Royalist English
​ instead of American – that is, it still uses CampingPitch, which American
publishers and web developers will be unfamiliar with. The American term is
campsite. ​According to Michael Andrews, Indians also use campsite. I see
three issues:

   1. ​Why are we using Royalist English for official terms? By default,
   shouldn't we be using American English since that's the vast majority of
   the English-speaking user base in 2018?
   2. The new paragraph is ponderous and out of place. It's a
   copy-and-paste from Wikipedia and doesn't fit the schema.org context (
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite). There's a very long sentence
   that veers into the Royalist English for a camping *area*. Then the next
   sentence *very obliquely* reveals that the American term for a camping
   pitch is campsite. It never actually says anything as clear as "The
   American term for a camping pitch is campsite.​" The reason is that this
   copy/paste from Wikipedia *is from an article called Campsite*. The term
   campsite is assumed, and is the context for the write-up. Wikipedia is not
   using Royalist English by default in this case, preferring the American
   term, and their write-up makes a lot more sense as the intro to Campsite.
   It makes much less sense as the intro to Camping Pitch, which is where
   Richard put it.

   3. ​Should schema.org provide some kind of localization for different
   dialects of English? Camping pitch is a great example because Americans
   will so thoroughly not understand it, ​since *pitch *is not understood
   as an area. (Whereas campsite is self-explanatory.) But in Britain, they'll
   need to use camping pitch. Can we have parallel terms?


C
​heers,

JD​

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, 9:31 AM Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
wrote:

> Github pull request (#2003
> <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/pull/2003>) created to update the
> description of CampGround and CampingPitch.
>
> *CampGround:*
>
> A camping site, campsite, or Campground <http://localhost:8080/Campground> is
> a place used for overnight stay in the outdoors, typically containing
> individual CampingPitch <http://localhost:8080/CampingPitch> locations.
>
> In British English a campsite is an area, usually divided into a number of
> pitches, where people can camp overnight using tents or camper vans or
> caravans; this British English use of the word is synonymous with the
> American English expression campground. In American English the term
> campsite generally means an area where an individual, family, group, or
> military unit can pitch a tent or park a camper; a campground may contain
> many campsites (Source: Wikipedia see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>
> See also the dedicated document on the use of schema.org for marking up
> hotels and other forms of accommodations
> <http://localhost:8080/docs/hotels.html>.
>
>
> *CampingPitch:*
>
> A CampingPitch <http://localhost:8080/CampingPitch> is an individual
> place for overnight stay in the outdoors, typically being part of a larger
> camping site, or Campground <http://localhost:8080/Campground>.
>
> In British English a campsite, or campground, is an area, usually divided
> into a number of pitches, where people can camp overnight using tents or
> camper vans or caravans; this British English use of the word is synonymous
> with the American English expression campground. In American English the
> term campsite generally means an area where an individual, family, group,
> or military unit can pitch a tent or parks a camper; a campground may
> contain many campsites. (Source: Wikipedia see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>
> See also the dedicated document on the use of schema.org for marking up
> hotels and other forms of accommodations
> <http://localhost:8080/docs/hotels.html>.
>
>
> ~Richard.
>
> Richard Wallis
> Founder, Data Liberate
> http://dataliberate.com
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> Twitter: @rjw
>
> On 5 July 2018 at 19:01, Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com> wrote:
>
>> The proposal suggests, but does not make explicit, that in American
>> English campsite is a synonym for CampingPitch.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nitpick – there is a superfluous “s” in the following:
>>
>> means an area where an individual, family, group, or military unit can
>> pitch a tent or parks a camper;
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 5, 2018 6:58 AM
>> *To:* Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Eurocentrism, incorrect unit abbreviations, and
>> proprietary Royalist Engish (sic) terms
>>
>>
>>
>> @Thad & others,
>>
>>
>>
>> The Campground <https://schema.org/Campground> type has the following
>> description:
>>
>>
>>
>> A camping site, campsite, or campground is a place used for overnight
>> stay in the outdoors. In British English a campsite is an area, usually
>> divided into a number of pitches, where people can camp overnight using
>> tents or camper vans or caravans; this British English use of the word is
>> synonymous with the American English expression campground. In American
>> English the term campsite generally means an area where an individual,
>> family, group, or military unit can pitch a tent or parks a camper; a
>> campground may contain many campsites (Source: Wikipedia, the free
>> encyclopedia, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>>
>>
>>
>> Which I think covers things.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whereas CampingPitch <https://schema.org/CampingPitch> has this:
>>
>>
>>
>> A camping pitch is an individual place for overnight stay in the
>> outdoors, typically being part of a larger camping site.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which, under the current discussion, is a little lacking.
>>
>>
>>
>> I therefore propose this:
>>
>>
>>
>> A [[CampingPitch]] is an individual place for overnight stay in the
>> outdoors, typically being part of a larger [[Campground]].
>>
>>
>>
>> In British English a campsite, or campground, is an area, usually divided
>> into a number of pitches, where people can camp overnight using tents or
>> camper vans or caravans; this British English use of the word is synonymous
>> with the American English expression campground. In American English the
>> term *campsite* generally means an area where an individual, family,
>> group, or military unit can pitch a tent or parks a camper; a campground
>> may contain many campsites.
>>
>> (Source: Wikipedia see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campsite).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts/comments?
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Richard.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>>
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>
>> http://dataliberate.com
>>
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>>
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 July 2018 at 14:12, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since I care more about "Getting things done"...
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the Campsite/Campground ... the USA and its government is fairly
>> clear and standardized on a Campground being the larger area and individual
>> reservable "pitchs" as being called "campsites".  The NPS.gov has the data
>> available as well with annual campsite bookings.  Here's one example:
>> https://www.nps.gov/maca/planyourvisit/campgrounds.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> And Texas and other states started "campsite" or "camping pitch" specific
>> booking system just this year.
>> https://tpwd.texas.gov/state-parks/park-reservation-information/site-specific-booking
>>
>>
>>
>> So we probably could make mention about "campsite" and "campground" in
>> the definition to improve things.  So let's at least do that to make things
>> clear on both sides. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> A camping pitch *(in the USA, a campsite)* is an individual place for
>> overnight stay in the outdoors, typically being part of a larger camping
>> site *or campground.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *@Richard* - would you mind doing that to improve the definition a bit ?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Thad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>